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To: TheBattman

[[“works without faith is dead]]

A lot of people get confused with this verse, thinking that if they aren’t producing great works, their faith must be dead, or never existed i nthe first place- and therefore they begin to doubt their salvation.

God gave His commandments not so that we can ‘acheive holiness’ by ‘our efforts’ and therefore become ‘more favourable’ in the eyes of God, but rather, so that we can ENJOY a life of holiness with God as He itnended- many many of us will never reach those levels of fellowship wigth God, for there are many commands, many God given suggestions, that we simpl,y don’t care to follow if we’re really honest with ourselves-

Does that make God love those of us who are saved any less? NOPE!

It’s unfortunate, but there seems to be a ‘values system’ sort of hting that goes on behind the scenes in Christians lives- we tend to always comapre ourselves with super saints, and I guess can get prettyy depressed because we don’t measure up- thinking perhaps that there’s somethign wrong with us-

In life, picture a typical family- father, mother, sons and daughters- some sons are closer to their father, some, not as close, some daughters close, some not so close- BUT, the father and mother don’t love ANY of their children any less regardless of how close they may be (or at least they shlouldn’t love any less ideally)

Thoswe children who are closer to their parents of course enjoy beign with their parents more, enjoy family time with htem, enjoy benifits that those who aren’;t as close dont’; get to enjoy on a daily bassis, but whe the oens who aren’t close come to be with hte family, everyone is joyous and enjoy there time together

I guess what I’m satying is that there are soem called to be the spiritual giants who minister to the rest of us who will never be the s[piritual giants we guilt ourselves into thinking we must be because we tend to compare ourselves to those spiritual giants who minister to us.

Think also of the fact that there are rich Christians, and there are poor ones- I mean, dirt poor- I just think there are people ‘called’ to be certain class of Christians- and I think we must fully accept whatever class we have been handed by God- and perhaps even learn to accept it happily at some point in time, and to stop trying to guilt oursdelves into being somethign we were never meant to be just because we see other classes of Christians who ‘seem’ to have it better (whether financially, or spiritually) than we do

I kinda went off topic- but wanted to point out that hte verse I quoted I think really throws people for a loop- and they get this guilt complex because they aren’t the sjuper Christians like Paul, Peter, Matthew, Mark etc were- and I get pretty upset when I see televangelists tickling hte ears of their flocks and telling them that they ‘just don’t have great wealth and health, and spirituality’ because ‘they just don’t have enough faith’. Their ‘pray it and claim it’ sermons have really given Christianity a bad name, and caused many a good folks to come to doubt their salvation, causing unneeded frustration and even depression.


12 posted on 02/25/2011 8:37:47 PM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop

I also believe that some try to define “works” and “fruit” too narrowly. That older lady that is not a door- knocker, and who may not be a Sunday School Teacher... but always has a kind word for the pastor, is a faithful prayer warrior, and shines her own Christian light to those who get to know her... she is bearing fruit as well - it may not be the “big glamorous” fruit that some seem to set their sights on... but it is none the less.

God’s Word says that there are many “jobs” within God’s kingdom work - in fact, He describes it by comparing Christians to the vessels used in the Temple - some were earthen, some Silver, some Gold - yet all are important, even if they don’t all appear to be equal. Even the lowly “jobs” within a church are important and demonstrate fruitful work when done with a glad heart to Glorify God.


19 posted on 02/25/2011 9:39:37 PM PST by TheBattman (They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature...)
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To: CottShop; TheBattman
I just think there are people ‘called’ to be certain class of Christians- and I think we must fully accept whatever class we have been handed by God- and perhaps even learn to accept it happily at some point in time, and to stop trying to guilt oursdelves into being somethign we were never meant to be

Your comments shows great spiritual wisdom. It took me 30+ years to learn this truth. "Spiritual giants" are only giants because God has made them that way. We are to respect them that God is using them, but God loves them no more or less than anyone else. He simply has chose to use them.

There are biblical examples of this. For example when Elijah was lamenting he alone was left, God told him that He had 6,000 prophets hidden in a cave that He could call upon. Giddeon was a "mighty" man of God simply because God put into play how the Medianite army would fall.

On the flip side, we must not think too highly of ourselves. The rebellion of Korah was due to the Koranites believing they should have a greater position in the tabernacle. Aaron and Marian also believe they were just as important as Moses. All found out how wrong they were.

We are the way we are in our Christian life because this is the way God wants us to be. There is always room for us to improve, but that is God's Holy Spirit job which he works out in each of our lives, working specifically with each one of us. But God loves and uses each of us according to the measure that He has bestowed on us. Phrased another way, every Christian is equally as important in God's eye in carrying out His will, because all things comes from the Father.

37 posted on 02/26/2011 1:03:14 PM PST by HarleyD
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