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To: Kyrie

Fair enough, but I shall endeavor to refrain from speaking or behaving hatefully toward those who do not speak or behave hatefully toward me or other good people first.


16 posted on 02/17/2011 3:36:58 PM PST by DARCPRYNCE
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To: DARCPRYNCE
Fair enough, but I shall endeavor to refrain from speaking or behaving hatefully toward those who do not speak or behave hatefully toward me or other good people first.

That is generally appraised as a noble sentiment. I was tempted to ask you precisely how you would define "hateful." Looking over some of your other posts, I will conjecture that you would respond by saying that you would define it as the dictionary defines it. Although I can only guess which dictionary you would be referring to, I looked it up in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary. The possibilities were as follows:

  1. Full of hate
  2. Deserving of hate
  3. Arousing hate

Have you ever heard anyone state their intention to speak or behave in a way that would be deserving of hate? Neither have I. Nor have I ever encountered a person who said that they planned to speak or behave in a manner that was full of hate. Even the people we have seen who seem to be attempting to arouse hate probably wouldn't admit to it. Nearly everyone would say that they would "endeavor to refrain from speaking or behaving hatefully." Perhaps there is a gap between the intention and the reality...

Other than the word "hate," these three definitions of "hateful" do have one thing in common: they are all subjective. To illustrate this, consider the threads on FR concerning Mormonism. Evangelical Christians will often make assertions on these threads to the effect that Joseph Smith was a fraud. Sometimes Mormons on those threads will make a reply to the effect that the Evangelical Christians were being hateful.

Now, if a person believes that 1) Joseph Smith was in fact a fraud, and 2) the teachings of the LDS church regarding God and Jesus would steer a person away from a saving faith and towards eternal damnation, then a failure to advocate these beliefs would be the most uncaring and, well, hateful thing that person could do. On the other hand, if someone believes that 1) Joseph Smith was a true prophet, and 2) obedience to the teachings of the LDS church will result in salvation, then the posts of the Evangelical Christians could well be perceived as defaming, and as hateful.

So, lacking what scientists call an "operational definition" of words like "hateful", "demeaning," "degrading," or "defaming," I am left only with how I feel about what someone else says or does. Does it make me angry? Does it make me scared? Does it make me feel like it would make someone else angry or scared? Then I guess it must be hateful.

In my earlier post, I referred to I Corinthians 10:20. Many people today would consider that to be a hateful statement by a hateful person who embraced a hateful religion. Does that make it so? They certainly feel that way.

And if you base your definition of "a good religion" on those words, then it would seem to come down to nothing more than "a good religion, as I see it, is one whose practitioners don't upset me," and, "if you don't bother me, I won't bother you; that's why my religion is a good religion."

Speaking of hate...

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. (John 15:17-25, KJV)
For an example of unswerving, perfect love, I look to Jesus. As He was preparing to lay down His life for sinners like me, the world judged Him to be hateful. There were probably plenty of people who judged Him to be "demeaning," "degrading," or "defaming" their "good" religion. A few of them may have been convinced that He deserved to die for that reason.

Some people may find my remarks to be "hateful, "demeaning," "degrading," or "defaming." That's fine: my God told me not to expect them to think that mine is a "good" religion (as you see it).

47 posted on 02/17/2011 9:02:02 PM PST by Kyrie (This space for rent.)
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