Father of hit Mormon family piano group accused of sex abuse by his own daughters

UK Daily Mail ^ | Feb. 17, 2011

[Paragon Defender]

Here on this thread you’ve portrayed me to be many times worse than Keith Brown

---

/sigh False

---

(Who other than you and JimT have been misdirecting people from focusing on both the Brown daughters as victims and their father as a sexual deviant?)

---

False. Who believes that this thread is about “the Brown daughters as victims and their father as a sexual deviant”? Not me.

[Paragon Defender]

Here on this thread you’ve portrayed me to be many times worse than Keith Brown

---

/sigh False

---

(Who other than you and JimT have been misdirecting people from focusing on both the Brown daughters as victims and their father as a sexual deviant?)

---

False. Who believes that this thread is about “the Brown daughters as victims and their father as a sexual deviant”? Not me.

[Paragon Defender]

Nothing about the victims or the sexual predator

---

And you expect me or any rational person to believe this thread is about “the victims or the sexual predator”?

really?

[Paragon Defender]

but your limited purposes in deflecting and defending sexual deviants

---

False. True to form!

---

I’m embarrassed that I know you to the extent that I do

---

Being exposed for what you are doing is embarrasing huh? Sorry but you kinda made me do it.

I’ll pray for you to get past your obsession and become a much happier person than you are today.

[svcw]

And do expect anyone to believe that you care about the sexual victims while prattling on about your obsession with the non issue of anti-mormon. Still you fail to condemn the pervert you just continue to condemn the poster.

[Elsie]

But in your mind...

BLATANT mindreading alert!

[Elsie]

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

---

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,

“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

 

 

And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have said the same!

 

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

 

[Elsie]

Insinuate this, misdirect that.

Mom; PRESBYTERIANism is un true.

[Elsie]

 

Puleeze. Take the almost daily onslaught into account.

 

---

---

 

There's 51,998 MORE of us where WE can from!!

 

[Elsie]

There is NOTHING in Mormon doctrine that would support this perversion. The perp, if unrepentant, would be excommunicated.

However; there IS 'stuff' in MORMON 'scripture' that; if followed; leads to EX-COMMUNICATION!

How perverted is THAT??

[Elsie]

To some people, such things go without saying or are assumed. Everyone I know would agree.

And that; Dear Lurkers; is what MIND reading is all about:

ASSUMING facts not in evidence.

[Elsie]

Wish I could answer you but the mind reading police in your gang would get me if history is any indicator.

When YOU post your OWN words on FR; and they get referenced; that's history.

If you say stupid things, the 'history'comes back to bite you.

THAT's how it works.

[Elsie]

I can’t point out what you are really doing with these threads.

Just like you 'can't point out' any OTHER grevious acts of misconduct you ACCUSE the Flying Inmen of.

---

HMMmm...

If you can't point them out - yet you say they are there; I wonder just where these ideas originate?

[Elsie]

The tactic used in this and other threads is plain to see.

Of COURSE it is!

We post things, directly from OFFICIAL Mormon sources, and you and others try your darnedest to claim that SOMEhow the words do NOT mean EXACTLY what they say!

[Elsie]

No, you come here to attack the LDS Church in any way you can.

I just HATE when things like that are shown to the world!

---

 

 

 

THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 14

 

An angel tells Nephi of the blessings and cursings to fall upon the Gentiles—There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil—The saints of God in all nations are persecuted by the great and abominable church—The apostle John shall write concerning the end of the world. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

 

  1 And it shall come to pass, that if the ^aGentiles shall hearken unto the Lamb of God in that day that he shall manifest himself unto them in word, and also in ^bpower, in very deed, unto the ^ctaking away of their ^dstumbling blocks—

  2 And harden not their hearts against the Lamb of God, they shall be numbered among the seed of thy father; yea, they shall be ^anumbered among the house of Israel; and they shall be a ^bblessed people upon the ^cpromised land forever; they shall be no more brought down into captivity; and the house of Israel shall no more be confounded.

  3 And that great ^apit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, saith the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that ^bhell which hath no end.

  4 For behold, this is according to the ^acaptivity of the devil, and also according to the justice of God, upon all those who will work wickedness and abomination before him.

  5 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, Nephi, saying: Thou hast beheld that if the Gentiles repent it shall be ^awell with them; and thou also knowest concerning the covenants of the Lord unto the house of Israel; and thou also hast heard that whoso ^brepenteth not must perish.

  6 Therefore, ^awo be unto the Gentiles if it so be that they harden their hearts against the Lamb of God.

  7 For the time cometh, saith the Lamb of God, that I will work a great and a ^amarvelous work among the children of men; a ^bwork which shall be everlasting, either on the one hand or on the other—either to the convincing of them unto ^cpeace and ^dlife eternal, or unto the deliverance of them to the hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds unto their being brought down into captivity, and also into destruction, both temporally and spiritually, according to the ^ecaptivity of the devil, of which I have spoken.

  8 And it came to pass that when the angel had spoken these words, he said unto me: Rememberest thou the ^acovenants of the Father unto the house of Israel? I said unto him, Yea.

  9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the ^adevil.

  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save ^atwo churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the ^bother is the church of the ^cdevil; wherefore, ^dwhoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the ^ewhore of all the earth.

  11 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many ^awaters; and she had dominion over ^ball the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.

  12 And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were ^afew, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon ^ball the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small, because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.

  13 And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to ^afight against the Lamb of God.

  14 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb, and upon the covenant people of the Lord, who were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and they were ^aarmed with ^brighteousness and with the ^cpower of God in great glory.

  15 And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was ^apoured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the ^bnations and kindreds of the earth.

  16 And as there began to be ^awars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things—

  17 And when the ^aday cometh that the ^bwrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church  of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the ^cwork of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his ^dcovenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.

  18 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me, saying: Look!

  19 And I looked and beheld a man, and he was dressed in a white robe.

  20 And the angel said unto me: Behold ^aone of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

  21 Behold, he shall ^asee and ^bwrite the ^cremainder of these things; yea, and also many things which have been.

  22 And he shall also write concerning the end of the world.

  23 Wherefore, the things which he shall write are just and true; and behold they are written in the ^abook which thou beheld proceeding out of the mouth of the Jew; and at the time they proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, or, at the time the book proceeded out of the mouth of the Jew, the things which were written were plain and pure, and most ^bprecious and easy to the understanding of all men.

  24 And behold, the things which this ^aapostle of the Lamb shall write are many things which thou hast seen; and behold, the remainder shalt thou see.

  25 But the things which thou shalt see hereafter thou shalt not write; for the Lord God hath ordained the apostle of the Lamb of God that he should ^awrite them.

  26 And also others who have been, to them hath he shown all things, and they have ^awritten them; and they are ^bsealed up to come forth in their purity, according to the truth which is in the Lamb, in the own due time of the Lord, unto the house of Israel.

  27 And I, Nephi, heard and bear record, that the name of the apostle of the Lamb was ^aJohn, according to the word of the angel.

  28 And behold, I, Nephi, am forbidden that I should write the remainder of the things which I saw and heard; wherefore the things which I have written sufficeth me; and I have written but a small part of the things which I saw.

  29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my ^afather saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

  30 And now I make an end of speaking concerning the things which I saw while I was ^acarried away in the spirit; and if all the things which I saw are not written, the things which I have written are ^btrue. And thus it is. Amen.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Colofornian]

Not a good post, Colo. No, no. It is a wonderful post. It shines light on what Christians are trying so hard to get across to Mormons: that they are loved by us and that we care about their eternal destiny. Though you may struggle with certain Mormons, always remember the ones who read here unannounced, as you never know whom you may be reaching. We are to be His hands, ears, eyes, mouth, and heart. You just did a fantastic job of it and, again, you may never know until He calls you home who all you reached with your post. My Best to You,

Thank you for your kind words of blessing.

Claire, I so concur with the words I highlighted above from your comment; Lds, we DO care about your eternal destiny.

Lds, your leaders have told you that "eternal life"=becoming a god in the highest place of heaven. Yet Jesus Christ defines eternal life as knowing Him -- and the only true God. (John 17:3) That's it!

When you relate to your earthly father, does he...
...make his gifts dependent upon conditions?
...make you run a gauntlet of legalistic rituals so that you can claim to be related to him?
...Or if you've offended him, does he make you do legalistic rituals just to receive his forgiveness?

No. The Mormon god is a lower-level generational god not worth knowing.

You want the Ultimate God. The God who has always been God, and didn't treat divinity as a simple entrepreneurial enterprise that he got by submitting a spiritual resume' to a "council of gods" for the Kolob-Earth deity district.

What's more: I encourage you...read the Gospel of John and 1 John. Note especially passages like...
* John 3:36: Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life... [present tense]
* John 6:47: Very truly I tell you, the one who believes HAS eternal life. [present tense]

You're not going to wear blinders, too about how Mormon (and even many Christian) leaders have 100% futurized the start of eternal life, are you?

Not convinced about Jesus' words? First John's testimony highlighting God's testimony, then Jesus again:

* 1 John 5:9-12: We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God HAS GIVEN us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son HAS life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. [Present & past tense]
* John 5:24: “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but HAS CROSSED OVER from death to life. [First present tense; then even past tense -- we've ALREADY cross over from death to life]

The Mormon version of the gospel can provide no such present or past tense assurances. It's all an aca-spiritual grade you get for trying to "do all you can do." (2 Nephi 25:23) It's all up in the air. The emphasis is on testifying to a mere man (Smith) and to a mere church organization -- NOT to Jesus Christ and relating to Him and our Father. All on top of a spiritual treadmill you can never get off.

The Mormon church can't even list all of the laws they've told you to adhere to...I've gone through Lds.org re: EVERY mention of the word "law." It's an incredible list when you total them all up. Yet the Mormon church hasn't even put 20% or more of those laws to be obeyed in one central list!!! What does that tell you?

Do you really think that Jesus, having in a prayer to His Father, defined eternal life as knowing His Father (as well as Himself) would mislead people? The Mormon "gospel" contradicts John 17:3 -- because it says only temple married Mormons who get accepted into the godhood divinity school get to live with Heavenly Father forever. Nobody else. Why would Jesus promise experientially knowing the Father NOW to be eternal life -- only for the Father to reject most of mankind and even most Mormons from living with Him forever?

John 5:24 says we have already crossed over from death to life. Our death -- our death in sin (Eph. 2:1) -- has been buried in the cross and burial of Jesus Christ. I testify that we are new creatures with a new life because we know the very Resurrection Himself, Jesus Christ. (See John 11:25,43). We have already been spiritually resurrected, born from above as re-created creatures in Christ, and we will be physically resurrected in the continued life to come.

Your Mormon leaders will tell you that yes, all are to be so resurrected. But they neglect the spiritual resurrection that takes place ON THIS EARTH by being born from above -- and they also neglect to show you verses like this one: 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

May I remind Mormons that a "resurrection of damnation" is NOT a degree of glory -- and that "damnation" in the history of the church NEVER meant "damned up"???!!!

[Colofornian]

There is NOTHING in Mormon doctrine that would support this perversion. The perp, if unrepentant, would be excommunicated. (Jimt)

However; there IS 'stuff' in MORMON 'scripture' that; if followed; leads to EX-COMMUNICATION! How perverted is THAT?? (Elsie)

Bingo!

The official Mormon practice of polygamy is not only still sanctioned by Mormon "scripture" in D&C 132, but it's STILL in the official bishops' handbook as a temple practice for them to sanction!!!! (As Gomer Pyle says on those reruns, "Surprise, surprise, surprise!")

There's a few Lds general authorities who have been married and remarried (their first wives died)...and they've each been sealed "for eternity" to both of their wives. Likewise, a Mormon woman who hasn't been divorced, but, say widowed, can be sealed to all of her husbands "for eternity." (In the so-called Mormon celestial kingdom, polygamy can work both ways with the Mormon god marriage bed being a very busy place with multiple partners!)

And this all from a church which tries to con the world into believing that mainstream Mormon polygamy is only yesteryear!

Whatever happened to integrity re: FULL disclosure of what your church teaches behind closed temple & bishop doors?

[Colofornian]

nd that; Dear Lurkers; is what MIND reading is all about: ASSUMING facts not in evidence.

Amen!

[CommerceComet]

I don’t believe you actually answered my question.

Of all the people on FR, you are probably the last person who should raise this concern. Your backlog of unanswered questions is massive. The only others who can rival it are fellow Mormon apologists (she who is not to be pinged, Delphi, and the lady who was going to proclaim the Mormon "gospel" from the rooftop). If you are going to be a real apologist, you are going to have to answer some questions once in a while rather than mindlessly post a list of links. (Hopefully, I'm not pinging banned members.)

[svcw]