[Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus]

Yeah...that line has always bothered me. The Greek word for wine is Oinos. John 2:1-11 states that Jesus' first miracle was that he turned water into Oinos. In Ephesians 5:18, Paul says "be not drunk with wine". The Greek word for wine that Paul uses is also Oinos. If a Christian brother says that Jesus made "grape juice", ask him how it is possible to be "drunk" with "grape juice". Clearly the wine made during Jesus' didn't have the same alcohol content as today's mass produced hooch, but it was still an alcoholic beverage. Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant of the original languages or is being dishonest.

It's amazing how many people want to read alcohol into each and every place where oinos is used.

The word refers to any product of the grape, fermented or not. The problem with assuming that Jesus made fermented wine in John 2 is simply that there is no contextual warrant for it. What Jesus made was fresh - the "goodness" of a wine/juice depended on its freshness and taste. What the governour of the feast said was that Jesus had made some really high quality, good-tasting stuff - unusual because after drinking several glasses, a person's palate is usually inured to the taste, and therefore people would usually start substituting in less expensive, lower quality wine later on into a feast, when nobody would be likely to notice. John 2 isn't really commenting on the alcoholicity of the wine either way. The fact that it was freshly made would logically tend, however, to suggest that it wasn't alcoholic.

Another problem for the alcohol people is that Jesus specifically calls the cup in the Lord's Supper "the fruit of the vine," which He said He would drink "new" in His kingdom. These are pretty clear indicators that the Scripture is trying to tell us that the wine was not fermented in the Lord's Supper.

That is actually theologically important for the same reason that the bread being used was unleavened. Leavening, which is essentially the bread version of fermentation, is a process that is used throughout Scripture to denote sin. It's a typological picture. Why would Jesus use bread in the Passover that avoided consuming this picture in the bread, but fail to do so in the wine, when the same idea about the wine (a picture of His blood, therefore ALSO sinless and perfect) was being expressed as that of the bread (picturing His body, also perfect and sinless)? Short answer is, He wouldn't, which is what the Scripture takes pains to tell us.

[The Unknown Republican]

You extrapolate more from “new” than I think can be merited in the text.

But, even if your proof text regarding Jesus’ first miracle is correct, it does not indicate a ban on the consumption of alcohol.

The Scriptures clearly provide guidance that the consumption of alcohol in moderation is not prohibited.

Judges 9:13 “But the vine said to them, ‘Shall I leave my wine that cheers God and men and go hold sway over the trees?’”

Ecclesiastes 10:19 (NASB) “Men prepare a meal for enjoyment, and wine makes life merry, and money is the answer to everything.”

Zechariah 10:7 “Then Ephraim shall become like a mighty warrior, and their hearts shall be glad as with wine. Their children shall see it and be glad; their hearts shall rejoice in the LORD.”

[Mrs. Don-o]

On the wine in Jesus' day being non-alcoholic::

Have you a 1st or 2nd century AD source for this information, either Jewish or Christian? Can you provide a link for early (early meaning during the first 1,000 years of Christianity) reference to, exposition of, or elaboration upon, these points?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time here. I'm trying to find out if and when Jews and/or Christians came out against consuming alcohol per se. I'm wondering if it was before the 7th centuyry AD.

Thanks.

[fortheDeclaration]

Amen! Leavening always signifies corruption.

[Controlling Legal Authority]

Grapes in my neck of the woods are ready for picking around Sept or Oct. How long would fresh grape juice typically last in the Jerusalem metro area around 30AD? I am guessing not very long. If the Last Supper was in the spring, wouldn’t all of the grape juice be spoiled by then if it had not been fermented into wine?
I don’t claim to know that there was no possible way that the Last Supper could have used grape juice but I am not seeing how that could happen.

[RobbyS]

Wine is wine. I find all this disingenuous, because prior to the beginning of the temperance movement in the 19th century, Baptists drank alcoholic beverages like everyone else and perforce they had to use wine in communion. The many denunciations of drunkenness in the Old Testament tells us wine was in general use. As for the good wine at Cana , it was wine that had not been watered down. That was one point that John was trying to make. One does