Ver-””There is no such thing as a “mystical connecting to the Church”, there is only formally in the Church or outside of the Church, that was dogmatically defined by Pius XII””
Pius XII said nothing about the Invincibly Ignorant,therefore he did not define the dogma regarding them.Lumen Gentium Defined the Invincibly Ignorant which did NOT change Salvation outside the Church since Salvation is still within the Church in a mystical way through the Grace of God.
Our ways are not always His ways,ver.
Like it or not,Lumen Gentium is a dogmatic constitution and rejecting it is being disobedient to Christ and His Church like Feeney was.
Ver-””are you prepared to tell the non-Catholics on FR that they can be saved because they are invisible ignorant””
It’s not up to me to know the minds of others,ver.God knows these things,all I can do is uphold the faith and be obedient and lead by example and pray for them humble themselves to avoid error.
These debates between the same ole protestants don’t seem to change the harsh anti Catholic’s.
I believe there are lurkers out there who benefit from the exchanges and are led to union with the Church.
Telling people who are searching that they are going to hell will cause them to run away,ver.So ,you ought to be careful to not let the little ones who are searching be led away from the faith.
I’m finished posting on this thread. You may have the last word,dear brother
I wish you a Blessed evening!
That Vatican II chose to remain on a purely pastoral level, is a well documented fact. Documented, by none other that the present Pope when – as Cardinal Ratzinger – he addressed the Bishops of Chile:
“The Second Vatican Council has not been treated as a part of the entire living Tradition of the Church, but as an end of Tradition, a new start from zero. The truth is that this particular Council defined no dogma at all, and deliberately chose to remain on a modest level, as a merely pastoral council; and yet many treat it as though it had made itself into a sort of superdogma which takes away the importance of all the rest.”
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ALL NON-CATHOLICS ARE OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH, EVEN THE INVINCIBLE IGNORANT
The invincible ignorant are outside of the Church, there is no "in between mystical church", of invincible ignorant non-Catholics. From the thread article:
"What makes us inside the Church? Three things: Divine and Catholic Faith (explicit in the principal mysteries — the Trinity and the Incarnation — and at least implicit in all other articles), sacramental baptism, and subjection to the Holy Father. These defining elements of Church membership expounded by St. Robert Bellarmine were authoritatively postulated by Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis":
"Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” [I Cor., XII, 13] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. [Cf. Eph., IV, 5] And therefore, if a man refuse to hear the Church, let him be considered – so the Lord commands – as a heathen and a publican. [Cf. Matth., XVIII, 17] It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit". (No. 22)