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To: lastchance; verdugo
I believe the site is from Schismatics who are either ultra trads or sedevacanists or perhaps both. So they’re opinion is not supported by the official teaching of the Catholic Church.

Seems to me that verdugo has quite convincingly proven his case:

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

There's no way to interpret that as saying anything but "only card-carrying Catholics can be saved"

verdugo- thank you very much. Finally a Catholic with the stones to man-up and proclaim traditional Catholic teaching on the true meaning of extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I get quite weary of Catholics on this forum going all wobbly over it. For myself, I have no problem in stating that if you are adhere to Catholic doctrine, especially works righteousness, you are doomed to hell. Nothing personal, right?
148 posted on 02/08/2011 6:30:38 PM PST by armydoc
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To: armydoc
re: There's no way to interpret that as saying anything but "only card-carrying Catholics can be saved"

The author of the thread article clarifies this "card carrying Catholics" error, or imprecision:

We often hear the objection that someone does not need to be a “formal” member of the Church in order to be saved. The implication is that the spiritual trumps the juridical, and that God is not a stickler for names on baptismal registers and the like. But the implication often reaches further than such trivialities, to include what the Church has defined is necessary for salvation. The objection frames the issue of being Catholic in a far-too-juridical way. What makes us inside the Church? Three things: Divine and Catholic Faith (explicit in the principal mysteries — the Trinity and the Incarnation — and at least implicit in all other articles), sacramental baptism, and subjection to the Holy Father. These defining elements of Church membership expounded by St. Robert Bellarmine were authoritatively postulated by Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” [I Cor., XII, 13] As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. [Cf. Eph., IV, 5] And therefore, if a man refuse to hear the Church, let him be considered – so the Lord commands – as a heathen and a publican. [Cf. Matth., XVIII, 17] It follows that those who are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit. (No. 22)

There are many people who would not be considered “formal” members of the Church who are, in fact, Catholics in the dogmatic sense. Consider a case I’m personally familiar with: a teenager baptized in a (schismatic) Orthodox church in Russia. Adopted by a Catholic couple when she was about eleven years old, she continued to communicate and confess in the Catholic Church as she had in the Orthodox parish in Russia. The Catholic priest in this country said that as long as she believed in the pope — which she did — she was free to receive the sacraments. Yet I have been assured that, juridically, she is still considered Orthodox. I am fairly certain that her name appears on no Catholic parish register. For all that, she meets the three of the requisites above. This young lady could not be more Catholic. What is important are not the “juridical” issues, but the ecclesiological, sacramental, and “creedal” elements that truly make one a Catholic. Perhaps we can put it in terms that might make a canonist cringe: de facto Catholicism is what matters, not de jure Catholicism.

Since you armydoc are a Protestant and believe that you are already saved no matter what you do, let me add, that the Catholic doctrine on salvation is that if a Catholic dies with ONE mortal sin on their soul, that they go to hell. Therefore, I doubt that 1% of Catholics today will be saved. For the vast majority of the 1 billion + baptized Catholics today, all they did to be called Catholic, was being unconsciously present as an infant at their baptism. If a Catholic dies with ONE mortal sin on their soul, they will go to hell. ONE mortal sin! Contraceptive use is a mortal sin, and practically all Catholics use them.

Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)

I do not speak rashly, but how I feel and think. I do not think that many priests are saved, but that those who perish are more numerous. ( St. John Chrysostom)

Work out your salvation in fear and trembling, salvation is no piece of cake for Catholics.

151 posted on 02/09/2011 8:14:03 AM PST by verdugo
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To: armydoc

The unfortunate thing is that he’s incorrect. Fr. Freeney has been repudiated.

There *is* salvation outside the Church, in that God is sovereign. To say otherwise is contrary to what the church has taught since day 1.


157 posted on 02/09/2011 9:10:45 AM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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