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To: BenKenobi

No, the point is that you are flat-out contradicting the Word of God, and do not understand how a man is justified in the sight of God.

You said “I believe Abraham was saved in leaving his home and moving to Israel, in trusting the promises of God, and submitting to them by actually acting and following through.”

This is salvation by doing something (works).

The Word of God says that “We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.” - BEFORE he did anything (circumcision, moving, offering Isaac, etc....)

This is a critical distinction. Abraham was counted righteous by believing God. Nothing more. The fact that he followed through and obeyed was evidence of his belief, not the basis on which he was counted righteous.

BK - “Did Abraham know of Christ?”

The Bible doesn’t tell us how much Abraham knew, but he certainly believed that God was going to provide a way of salvation for mankind.

BK - “Was Abraham saved?”

Yes.

BK - “As for circumcision, Paul just spent chapters on discussing that circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing.”

I understand that. That was provided to prove that Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith before he DID anything. Which proves you wrong.


122 posted on 02/08/2011 1:25:16 PM PST by paulist ("For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." - Philippians 1:21)
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To: paulist

“The Bible doesn’t tell us how much Abraham knew, but he certainly believed that God was going to provide a way of salvation for mankind.”

Is that what God told him?

Now who’s making up stuff.

God was very clear with what he promised Abraham.

He promised Abraham the following:

1, that his descendents would be as numerous as the sand on the shore.

2, that they would reside in Israel, in the land between the Nile and Euphrates.


123 posted on 02/08/2011 1:51:53 PM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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To: paulist

Which is why I referred to circumcision? No.

Circumcision was given after Abraham had already obeyed God, and submitted to him and left his home to travel to Israel. God commanded, he obeyed, and God blessed him.


124 posted on 02/08/2011 1:53:37 PM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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To: paulist

James is very clear, Faith without works is dead. If you have faith in God, you will obey the commandments.


125 posted on 02/08/2011 1:55:58 PM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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