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To: paulist

It is only through Him, and his Mercy, that they will be saved, not through their own works.

God will examine the hearts of the righteous (those who conduct their lives in accordance with him, even if they are not perfect), and will determine whether they will or will not be saved.

The directive, as the first part of Romans, is charged to Jews (who know the law), and Gentiles, who have been exposed to the law. It does not apply to the ignorant, as anyone who has heard Paul is no longer ignorant of the good news of Christ.

Paul explains, that even if the Word has not reached people, they will be convicted based on their conscience, their thoughts either preserving or convicting them. Their conscience is how they know the law of God, even if they have not heard the Word of God. In the sense that the Gospel is not new, because those who have not heard it will respond to it based on what they already know through their conscience. Anyone who’s done missions will tell you this.

“Believing IN God, will save no one. Believing God, in Abraham’s case meant believing the promises of God; ultimately, believing that God would Himself provide a way of redemption for sinners through the Messiah.”

Fine. Still doesn’t get around my point that Abraham in submitting to God was considered to be righteous, which you do not address. The same is true for others who are ignorant of God but do what the Law requires. Same as with Noah, btw.


109 posted on 02/08/2011 8:30:35 AM PST by BenKenobi (one of the worst mistakes anybody can make is to bet against Americans.")
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To: BenKenobi

BK - “God will examine the hearts of the righteous (those who conduct their lives in accordance with him, even if they are not perfect), and will determine whether they will or will not be saved.”

Either you’re wrong, or God is, since over and over He says that our hearts are wicked, and there is none righteous, no not one. I’ll stick with God on this.

BK - “Fine. Still doesn’t get around my point that Abraham in submitting to God was considered to be righteous, which you do not address.”

I have addressed this issue, and unlike you, I’ve done it without twisting Scripture into saying something it doesn’t.

Romans 4:3 - “For what does the Scripture say? ‘Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

Romans 4:9b - “We say that FAITH was counted to Abraham as righteousness.”

It does NOT say that Abraham was considered righteous in “submitting to God” that is your own perversion of the Scripture.

Romans 10:9-10 - “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses AND IS SAVED.”

If what you believe is in fact true, then Romans 10:14-15 are total nonsense, since the primitive man in the jungle doesn’t need to hear about Christ in order to be saved. What utter rubbish!

If you are correct, and a man can be saved apart from hearing the Word of Christ and believing it, then Romans 10:14-15 are


110 posted on 02/08/2011 9:20:18 AM PST by paulist ("For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain." - Philippians 1:21)
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