Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

I would like to think that those who brought me up in the Trinity doctrine told me the truth to the best of their ability, the truth as they know it.

The reason why so many Christians are so firm about Trinitarianism, is because they believe that it is a divine truth from the Holy Spirit. When people believe a doctrine is a divine truth from the Holy Spirit, then there is little you can say to convince them otherwise.

Like I always say, "Truth is made known by the reason of the facts." Facts first, feelings last. When I prayed about it, it was reveled to me that I had deceived myself by my own feelings. From now on it's facts first.

God or god. A God or a god. It was understood that the Messiah would be an immortal being from heaven.

If Trinitarianism is a biblical truth, then how come it has never been taught in Orthodox Judaism?

Orthodox Judaism has always known about Trinitarianism. The only Jews who believed in Trinitarianism were Pagans, Mystics, Hellenist, and Kabbalist.

We are all made in the image of God, and we also are called to be ONE in unity with the Father.

The word gnostic or gnosis was also used in a derogatory way by Gnostics against anyone who did not agree with Catholicism.

There were two different groups of Gnostic's during the first centuries AD. The first group of Gnostic's were opposed to Christianity. The other group of Gnostic's were not opposed, and joined Pagan notions to Christianity. The Gnostic Christians believed in Sunday Sabbath, authority of the Pope, and Trinitarianism, while the Judaizing Christians were opposed to such things as Catholicism [Universalism.]

Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. "

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

The word "Godhead" is not in the original scripture, but is a interpretation. The term "Godhead" was first introduced by John Wycliffe (1330-1384 C.E.) in English Bible versions as godhede.

The word "Godhead" is a interpretation of three different Greek words, theion (meaning "divinity, deity", # 2304 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Acts 17:29, theiotçs (meaning "divinity, divine nature", # 2305 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Romans 1:20, and theotçs (meaning "deity", # 2320 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament)

It was not until Around the sixth century, the word Filioque was added to the Nicene Creed, defining as a doctrinal teaching that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father and the Son."

In the only codices which would be even likely to preserve an older reading, namely the Sinaitic Syriac and the oldest Latin Manuscript, the pages are GONE which contained the end of Matthew 28. Frederick Cornwallis Conybeare (1856 - 9 January 1924) was a Professor of Theology at the University of Oxford.

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius: Eusebius of Caesarea. 265 ? AD.– 337 ? AD.

Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. Eusebius informs us of Yahshua's actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19.

Quote: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all...

And again Eusebius for example, in Book III of his History, Chapter 5, Section 2, which is about the Jewish persecution of early Christians, we read:

"But the rest of the disciples, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went to all nations to preach the good news, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name."

And again, in his Oration in Praise of Emperor Constantine, Chapter 16, Section 8, we read:

What king or prince in any age of the world, what philosopher, legislator or prophet, in civilized or barbarous lands, has attained so great a height of excellence, I say not after death, but while living still, and full of mighty power, as to fill the ears and tongues of all mankind with the praises of his name? Surely none save our only Savior has done this, when, after his victory over death, he spoke these words to his followers, and fulfilled it by that event, saying to them, "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name."

There is not a single occurrence of the disciples baptizing anyone using the Trinitarian formula. All of the scripture in the New Testament shows that people were baptized into the name of Jesus, even after Pentecost.

And when people in church leadership received the Holy Spirit, it was without the Trinitarian formula as in Acts 8:17. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Trinity related Acts 20:28 Holman bible foot note. Other mss read church of the Lord; other mss read church of the Lord and God

Acts 20:28 NIV foot note. Many manuscripts: “of the Lord” 28Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers.(a) Be shepherds of the church of God,(b) which he bought with his own blood.

1 Timothy 3:16 Holman bible foot note. Other mss read God 1 Timothy 3:16 NIV foot note. Some manuscripts God

1 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He(a) appeared in a body,(b) was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. Footnotes: a. 1 Timothy 3:16 Some manuscripts God b. 1 Timothy 3:16 Or in the flesh

1 John 3:16 In this we have known the charity of God, because he hath laid down his life for us:...

The words (of God) are not in the original text of 1 John 3:16, but have been added.

NIV 1 John 5 6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NIV Footnotes: a.1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the fourteenth century)

KJV 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. 7And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

This is the only verse in the Bible that explicitly states that all three persons are one. Unfortunately, it was added to that verse. No earlier version includes that last phrase about them being one.

The first 2 additions of Erasmus' master Greek text did not have this. Stunica (a Catholic authority) demanded that he include the phrase. Erasmus told Stunica that if he could provide one Greek manuscript with that phrase, he would include it. But no Greek manuscripts up to that time had it. Only Latin manuscripts had it. So Stunica had a Greek manuscript made up from the Latin and forced Erasmus to include it.

In 1514, before Erasmus had even begun to edit his text, but its publication was delayed until 1522, until permission of Pope Leo X had finally been obtained for it.

"The supreme Pontiff Leo X, Our Most Holy Father in Christ and Lord, desiring to favour this undertaking, sent from the apostolic library."

This claim seems to have been accepted by all at that time. In view of its inclusion in the Clementine edition of the Latin Vulgate (1592), in 1897 the Holy Office in Rome, a high ecclesiastical congregation, made an authoritative pronouncement, approved and confirmed by Pope Leo XIII, that it is not safe to deny that this verse is an authentic part of St. John's Epistle."

Here’s some more info on the trinity doctrine. "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind." (Col 2:16-18)

1 Tim 6:20 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called."

The "oppositions of science falsely so called." is the opposition to Jewish and Pagan Gnosticism.

Philosophy and Gnosticism is the "profane and vain babblings" the Church had to combat.

The worshipping of angels was then and is now one of the distinctive marks of Jewish Kabbalism. Kabbalism today use’s angels, magic, and astrology in their occult system, attempting to control their destiny.

The Jewish Encyclopedia says: "The principal elements of Gnosticism were derived from Jewish speculation." The Jewish Encyclopedia also states that: "It is a noteworthy fact that heads of Gnostic schools and founders of Gnostic systems are designated as Jews by the early Church fathers."

The Roman Catholic Church with its philosophy of a hidden God who should be approached through intermediaries such as saints and angels is the same distinctive doctrine of the Kabbalah.

The angel that the Kabbalists call Metatron, is the female god of the Kabbalah, which they call the "shekhinah", it has emerged into Catholic theology as Mary. The Catholic Church also absorbed the asceticism of the Gnostics into a system of celibacy for monks, priests and nuns.

Albert Pike, a high prophet of Freemasonry, spoke on the origin of Trinitarianism. In his secret book "Morals and Dogma" he says of the Kabbalist "Jews were the direct precursors of Gnosticism," their Kabbalist doctrine is derived from their captivity while in Babylon.

Philo of Alexandria was a Jew who played a key role in the development of the Trinitarian theory. Pike says, he was a Kabbalist "a initiate of the mysteries."

The Pharisees, who are Masonic like Kabbalists, were Hellenistic Jews and the enemies of Jesus Christ.

The Jewish Encyclopedia: “We are forced to conclude that the Pharisees introduced an element of confusion into Christian theology which we still have not emerged from.”

"Cast me not away from your presence; and take not your Holy Spirit from me" (Psalms 51:11). Moses received the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 63:11). Christ was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1). Was he filled with another person inside his body? No. He was filled with the presence of God.

"He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me; Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he, which baptizes with the Holy Spirit" (John 1:33).

So here we see a change. People are now given the opportunity to receive the Holy Spirit at baptism. This will automatically mean more people (not just prophets and patriarchs) would receive the Holy Spirit.

"And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4). Peter told the people at Jerusalem about Jesus being crucified and they responded by asking what they should do.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)

So after the day of Pentecost (which is the same day as the Feast of First Fruits) people were able to repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit. No longer was this the domain of only a few as in the Old Testament. However those being called were still relatively few compared to the world population.

Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius were the students of the original apostles. They lived at the turn of the century, before and after 100 AD. They did not mention a trinity or give a description of a trinity in all their writings.

It was not until the second century AD that the idea of a trinity began to take shape in the Gnostic Christian community.

Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus is also known as Tertullian. In the second century he was the first to introduce trinitarism into Christianity. He was the first person to formulate the idea of one substance having three persons.

The idea of individual substanence hypostasis was first introduced by Origen. Origen considered the Son to be not coequal, but derived from the Father whom is the Holy Spirit. Arius would adopt the idea of the Son being derivative of the Father in the third century AD. This eventually lead to a major crisis in the Counsel of Nicea.

Arius gained many followers as he taught that Christ was a created being, created by the Father. Arians were the followers of Arius.

The creed that came out of the Counsel of Nicea in 325 AD did not explicate the trinity. It simply proclaimed the divinity of Christ, rejecting Arianism.

There was no resolution on who the Holy Spirit is. That notion would not arise in full strength until the Counsel of Constantinople in 381 AD.

Basilius, also known as Basil, bishop of Caesarea. In the later 3rd century AD, formulated ideas as to what the Holy Spirit was. This was mainly in reaction to Arius who was his enemy doctrinally. Basil and others such as Gregory of Nazianzus and Gregory of Nyssa were encouraged to develop ideas to combat the idea of Arianism. The person who encouraged them was Athanasius who hated Arianism and wanted to wipe it out.

Philo introduced the idea of trinity to the Hellenistic Jews of Alexandria. Philo did not equate the three members of his trinity. He wrote that “the middle person of the three,” was Yahweh, the Father of the Universe, who is uncreated and unbegotten. God, the Father of the Universe was accompanied by two “body-guards”: the creative power and the royal power. God is greater than them. These ideas of Philo made a great impact on Christianity.

God commanded, “You will not make wrongful use of the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.” (Exodus 20:7 NRSV) Because of this command the translators of the Septuagint, did not transliterate the name “Yahweh” into Greek. They believed that the transliteration would have been a misuse of God’s name. Instead, they translated it as “Kyrios,” which in English is the word LORD. So therefore, the word Lord/Kyrios, became the name of Yahweh in Greek. It was a common title for masters or men of authority. Also, the New Testament writers applied it to Jesus. In the end, Jesus and God shared the same name title: Lord/Kyrios.

In the early 4th century, Lactantius (born 240 A.D. died 320 A.D.) wrote: “He {Jesus} taught that God is one {person} and that He {the Father} alone ought to be adored, nor did He {Jesus} ever call himself God.” Lactantius did not recognize a Trinity. He emphasized that Jesus is an “improperly called god,” and must not be worshipped as God.

Wrong interpretations and the distortion of God’s word is what supports the doctrine of the trinity.

When asked, "Which is the most important commandment of all?" Jesus answered, "The most important of all the commandments is, hear, o Israel, the Lord our God is One." (Mark 12:29)

"There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." (1 Tim. 2:5)

"There is but one God, the Father, whom made all things, and us by Himself , and one lord Jesus Christ, by whom we are in. (1 Cor. 8:6)

"This is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)

This last quotation is Jesus speaking; addressing God in prayer as the one true God, and speaking of himself as separate from that one true God.

Ps 110:1 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool. (KJV)

Acts 2:34-35 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit Thou on My right hand, 35 Until I make Thy foes Thy footstool. (KJV)

1 Cor 15:28 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him That put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. (KJV)

Heb 1:2-8 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, "Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to me a Son?"6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship Him. 7 And of the angels He saith, Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son He saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."

Psalm 97 1 The LORD reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. 2 Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. 3 Fire goes before him and consumes his foes on every side. 4 His lightning lights up the world; the earth sees and trembles. 5 The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth. 6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory. 7 All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols— worship him, all you gods!

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

There are many examples of scriptural corruptions in scriptures in regards to Trinitarianism. Just because every last place can not be disproved does not mean that this is not so.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what [the LORD / Yahwah] says— Israel's King and Redeemer, [the LORD / God] Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no [God / Elohiym.]

Isaiah 48:11-12 11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another."Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

Because KJV Rev 1:11 was found to be a corruption it is not included into other bibles.

According to history Trinitarianism has it's origins in Gnosticism. There is also a document about a Kabbalist who suggested the Godhead is triune. That was at the same time Yahshua was preaching. Perhaps that is why Yahshua quoted this verse: Mark 12:29. "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Trinity In the fourth-century, Marcellus of Ancyra declared that the idea of the Godhead existing as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus. Valentinus is quoted as teaching that God is three and three prosopa (persons) called the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:

Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God...These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have taken this from Hermes and Plato.

Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra, who was a staunch opponent of Arianism, but he also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical. He was later condemned for this view. He also attacked his opponents by linking them to the Gnostic Valentinus:

"Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit."

Valentinus (also spelled Valentinius) (c.100 - c.160) was known as a early Christian Gnostic Theologian.

It should be noted that Nag Hammadi library Sethian text such as Trimorphic Protennoia identify Gnosticism as professing Father, Son and feminine wisdom Sophia or as Professor John D Turner denotes, God the Father, Sophia the Mother, and Logos the Son.

If Trinitarianism is a biblical truth, then how come it has never been taught in Orthodox Judaism?

LOL Now I've heard everything.

The Jews completely missed the arrival of their Messiah, and you hold them up as the standard for understanding the nature of God?

Instruction?

DEUT 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;

9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:

10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:

11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

DEUT 32:7 Remember the days of old,consider the years of many generations. Ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you:

“messianic judaism” is not accepted by Judaism

If for no other reason than 90% of adherents are not and never were Jewish!

and it lacks the messiah in Christianity

Not sure what that means, but it is absolutely heretical to (small 'o') orthodox Christianity.

>> “My guess is that it is one of those...”i can’t make up my mind whether I’m Chritian or Jew...so I’m hedging” deals.” <<

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But Christianity is nothing more nor less than the fulfillment of Judaism. Judaism was 100% about Christ, and how to know him when he came (and comes again).

Each of the Lord’s feasts is a pagent about an event in the revealing of christ.

“But Christianity is nothing more nor less than the fulfillment of Judaism.”

Correct that Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. Incorrect that it is no more. Because Jesus Christ came to save all of the world, and sent out his Apostles to the world.

“Judaism was 100% about Christ, and how to know him when he came (and comes again).”

Jesus Christ has arisen.

You are forgetting that Yahshua and the disciples were Jews. Also, they had a large following of Jewish believers. It was the Hellenistic priesthood that rejected him as the messiah.

First of all, it wasn't just the Hellenistic priesthood that rejected Jesus as Messiah. Remember the crowd yelling "Crucify him!".

Secondly, Judaism has always rejected Jesus as Messiah. Remember, once the "Jewish believers" became believers, they ceased being Jews and became Christians. The majority of them abandoned the observance of Jewish ceremonial law in favor of embracing the law of Christ. Those that did continue to observe it observed it for entirely different reasons than they had when Jews - because of the Messiah!

Again I say, it is laughable to hold up Orthodox Jews as the standard for understanding the nature of God since they reject the Messiah their own scriptures told them to expect.

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