Posted on 02/04/2011 11:29:26 AM PST by RJR_fan
Bottom Line (last few paragraphs):
Based on the continuity of themes—wealth, kingdom, inheritance—Jesus’ teaching to the disciples should be considered of one piece with the parable of the rich fool. The section of Scripture, Luke 12:13–34, should be taken as a whole. And the immediate message was the disinheritance of Israel, and the transfer of the Kingdom to the New Testament church. This blessing, we are told, is the “Father’s good pleasure” (12:32).
I read that site I and I would say Rushdoonys own words condemn him. They write this to exonorate him but it actually works against him:
Rushdoony later wrote:
It is difficult to imagine that anyone can deny the reality of the mass slaughter that characterized the twentieth century, whether it be the Armenian millions murdered by the Turks, the Jewish millions murdered by the Nazis, or the untold millions murdered by the communists in China, Russia, and Cambodia.
Here Rushdoony seems to make a moral equivalence of the atrosities of the Armenians, Cambodians, Communists and Jews. They are not morally equivalent. The Jews have been slaughtered for the cause of being Christ Killers since the Roman empire. The Holocaust was an attempt to wipe from the Earth, one specific group of people. The Jews. It wasnt political, like the killing of Cambodians and Communists. Nor ethnic like Areminians. It was to destroy the Jews, a religous group, G-ds chosen etc, extermination. No other group in history has had production facilities manufactered just for their extermination. If Hitler could of had 100 million Jews and the time to kill them, he would have. If he could have killed every last Jew on the planet, including children, he would have.
Rushdoony ackowledges the horror but then adds:
In my Institutes of Biblical Law, I noted that the scope of such mass murder had so numbed the modern conscience that the murder of a "mere" thousand, or ten thousand, no longer shocked, tempting some to inflate the scope of lesser atrocities, lest they not seem sufficiently horrific.
There he says it again. "Inflating the scope of lesser atrocities". The 6 million figure has been analyzed throughly. That number is not inflated. Therefore his accusation of "inflation" for the purpose of gain of some sort is patently wrong and disturbing in its implication.
It was not my purpose to enter a debate over numbers, whether millions were killed, or tens of millions, an area which must be left to others with expertise in such matters. My point then and now is that in all such matters what the Ninth Commandment requires is the truth, not exaggeration, irrespective of the cause one seeks to serve.
Why even go there in the first place Rushdoony? Couldnt he find some other example of false witness? To claim exaggeration is in fact a form of holocaust denial. He says he doesnt want to argue the numbers and then argues the numbers! He cant have it both ways. And since he ends his statement by claiming exaggerated numbers, he is "denying the holocaust numbers" ie a revisionist with questionable motives.
Furthermore, on this site, your guys admit that Rushdoony had racist tendencies.
"Yet on race, sin colored his vision."
I am not convinced RJR is a good guy at all. But this is more of an internal squabble between Christians.
I never said He did, all I’m saying is one might better understand the philosophy and theology of the Jews if one understands their beliefs.
Hmm, didn’t YVWH present Israel a bill of divorce in Jeremiah?
Before I have all manner of things read into that statement, it is my Biblical view that there will be those saved from Israel purely from Grace (per Romans) but the vast majority will find themselves the unfortunate souls who are banished to the weeping and gnashing of teeth section.
Would like to hear thoughts on that as I find this whole subject a very thorny hedgerow.
With my Theological quandry being whether a Covenant can ever be completely revoked or replaced.
Hmm, was the Final Solution a religious based program, or based on addled minded science mixed in with good old fashioned Conspiracy Theories against the Jews in Europe?
As for Rushdooney’s statement, the 20th century saw more mass slaughter than at any time in world history, without doubt the only epoch that rivals the carnage would have been during the great plagues, if he queries whether or not the slaughter of 6 million jews should be included with the slaughter of 50 million Chinese Nationals, how is that racist or anti semitic?
50 million deaths do not count?
Here's what seems to be a reputable table.
In 1939, there were approximately 17 million Jews worldwide. That number is now closer 13 million, considerably less than the population of Los Angeles County.
Good...maybe you can copy the book, like 586 to 590 (or other relative pages so we can see them in total for context and them post it here, to get the truth out.
Is this not an endorsement of Poncins view that the reports about the number of Jews killed are “lies” that he is “hostile” to?
It seems that this Rushdoony character's real problem with Poncins was that he was not sufficiently anti-Catholic in his Holocaust denial/revisionism.
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So when questioned about his denial he doesn't want to argue numbers, but suggests it is most likely exxageration.
Sorry, a little too late to put the toothpaste back into the tube.
“hostile to lies about the numbers of Jews killed” is what he said.
Who told these “lies”? On what basis does he deem them lies?
And his criticism of a Holocaust revisionist is not that he is a nutter, but that he (of course) is hostile to the lies about the number of Jews killed but wasn't critical enough of the Catholic Church.
And now it really isn't important if they were, in fact, “lies”.
No, they might merely be “exxagerations”.
DISGUSTING!
I didn't know Free Republic was so rife with Holocaust Revisionism.
It was clearly a mixture of religious, neo-pagan and socialist progressives. The Nazis passed out tracts from Luthers "On the Jews and their Lies" at their Nuremberg rallies. From wiki:The prevailing view[27] among historians is that his (Luthers) anti-Jewish rhetoric contributed significantly to the development of antisemitism in Germany,[28] and in the 1930s and 1940s provided an ideal foundation for the National Socialists' attacks on Jews.[29] Reinhold Lewin writes that "whoever wrote against the Jews for whatever reason believed he had the right to justify himself by triumphantly referring to Luther." According to Michael, just about every anti-Jewish book printed in the Third Reich contained references to and quotations from Luther. Diarmaid MacCulloch argues that Luther's 1543 pamphlet On the Jews and Their Lies was a "blueprint" for the Kristallnacht.[30] Shortly after the Kristallnacht, Bishop Martin Sasse, a leading Protestant churchman, published a compendium of Martin Luther's writings ; Sasse "applauded the burning of the synagogues" and the coincidence of the day, writing in the introduction, "On November 10, 1938, on Luther's birthday, the synagogues are burning in Germany." The German people, he urged, ought to heed these words "of the greatest anti-Semite of his time, the warner of his people against the Jews."[31] In 1940, Heinrich Himmler wrote admiringly of Luther's writings and sermons on the Jews.[32] The city of Nuremberg presented a first edition of On the Jews and their Lies to Julius Streicher, editor of the Nazi newspaper Der Stürmer, on his birthday in 1937; the newspaper described it as the most radically antisemitic tract ever published.[33] It was publicly exhibited in a glass case at the Nuremberg rallies and quoted in a 54-page explanation of the Aryan Law by Dr. E.H. Schulz and Dr. R. Frercks.[34] On December 17, 1941, seven Lutheran regional church confederations issued a statement agreeing with the policy of forcing Jews to wear the yellow badge, "since after his bitter experience Luther had [strongly] suggested preventive measures against the Jews and their expulsion from German territory."
The Nazi's were neo-pagan and socialist but clearly used the seeds of Martin Luther to further the Final solution. Conspiracy theories? Mass production of death based on conspiracy theories? No, much more to it than that.
if he queries whether or not the slaughter of 6 million jews should be included with the slaughter of 50 million Chinese Nationals, how is that racist or anti semitic?
Easy, if Hitler had 100 million Jews to kill and the time to do it, he would have. The intent was to wipe from the Earth an entire faith of people. The Jews of G-d. The 50 million does count but those were political deaths not Extermination of a people. And is anyone trying to kill Chinese Nationals today? No. Is the world on the verge of allowing another Hitler (Iran) to have at the Jews AGAIN? yes. Whether it be the crusades, inquisition, pogroms or holocaust or now Iran and ALL the arab countries, it is always the Jews that people are seeking to destroy, generation after generation. That is a unique difference.
I took the time to read all of that.
Quite amazing. I will discuss it soon with my friend who is Jewish.
I also am interested in checking a “Literal translation” from a Christian source and see if they have corrected the mistranslation of “husband” to “disregard” that you outlined. Am interested in what I will see.
“Easy, if Hitler had 100 million Jews to kill and the time to do it, he would have. The intent was to wipe from the Earth an entire faith of people. The Jews of G-d. The 50 million does count but those were political deaths not Extermination of a people. And is anyone trying to kill Chinese Nationals today? No. Is the world on the verge of allowing another Hitler (Iran) to have at the Jews AGAIN? yes. Whether it be the crusades, inquisition, pogroms or holocaust or now Iran and ALL the arab countries, it is always the Jews that people are seeking to destroy, generation after generation. That is a unique difference.”
Well, unsurprisingly, I’m defending Hitler or the Nazi’s however, it strikes me that 50 million slaughtered have as good of a case for sympathy as the 6 million Jews (and 6 million other “undesirables”) for the 20th century being the untold before height of human depravity.
Rushdooney is NOT saying the holocaust was not horrific, he does appear to me to be saying there were other mass murders that deserve as much acknowledgement of their fate as the victims of Nazism’s camps or perhaps Stalin and Lennin’s programs.
It seems to me anti Semitism would be a conveyance of the sense “well they had it coming/deserved it” and it does not appear to me that has happened.
Perhaps the Holocaust was the Time of Jacobs Troubles?
Designed to promolugate the rebirth of the State of Israel?
'Nuff said.
It isn't. The subject was brought up by blasater1960 to poison the well wrt RJR_Fan. Rushdoony was not mentioned in the OP.
You can put your indignation back in the bottle now.
Are you a communist? Otherwise what problem do you have with the JBS?
I have no doubt the number is accurate.
He was not perfect, for sure. I disagree with his views on the use of the cultic laws of ancient Israel by Christians.
He was a target by those within the Christian community who could not abide the idea that the principles embodied in the Word of God, esp in the moral and civil laws given by Moses could be used as the basis of the legal system in a just society. Reconstruction became a dirty word. It still is for the most part, esp. by those who misunderstand it, willfully or ignorantly.
The late unlamented Rousas J. Rushdoony is the quasi-official theologian of the John Birch Society.
Are you a communist? Otherwise what problem do you have with the JBS?
First of all, thank you for outing yourself.
Second, the Society's habit of presenting itself as a non-sectarian anti-Communist organization when it is in reality and "old right" anti-Jewish chr*stian dominionist and medievalist Catholic organization is certainly dishonest. I'm sorry you don't have a problem with dishonesty.
I was a member of the Society from 1977 to 1981. I know quite enough about it (including how to sniff Birchers out on conservative forums).
Actually, I'm not. Not even sure if I've ever met a Bircher.
I didn't realize I was talking to an "ex". Ex-smokers can be the same way.
Wiki says this about your former associates:
Antisemitic, racist, anti-Mormon, anti-Masonic, and religious groups criticized the group's acceptance of Jews, non-whites, Masons, and Mormons. These opponents accused Welch of harboring feminist, ecumenical, and evolutionary ideas.[33][34][35]You're saying that's not accurate? Were you a racist when you were on the inside?[33] ^ Bryant, John. "The John Birch Society – Exposed!". http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/NetLoss/NetLoss-Oliver.html. Retrieved 2008-07-18.
[34] ^ "A Spectre Haunting Mormonism". http://www.mormoninquiry.typepad.com/mormon_inquiry/2006/06/a_spectre_was_h.html. Retrieved 2008-07-18.
[35] ^ Bove, Nicholas J., Jr.. "The Belmont Brotherhood". http://www.watch.pair.com/belmont.html. Retrieved 2008-07-18.
Fruit from a poison tree, like water from the poisoned well.
It seems you are drawing from that well, when not defending the indefensible as you insist the water is pure.
Here is a parallel of that verse. Hebrew 8:9
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