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To: A.A. Cunningham

Your response to me that I have “very poor comprehension of scripture” would have validity if you had posted a scripture that backed the Catholic belief that church leaders are forbidden to marry.

Doesn’t the Catholic Church look at Peter as the head of the church? He was married because the bible says, “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.” Matthew 8:14 You just wrote that Jesus Christ disagreed with what I said, but he chose Peter as one of his disciples, and Catholics believe he’s the first pope.

If I “glossed over 1 Corinthians”, as you say, then please post the scripture that says Priests/Rabbis/Church Leaders are to remain celibate. In 1 Timothy 3:2, it states...”Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.”

If the Catholic Church doesn’t forbid marriage, then are you saying that a Catholic Priest would be allowed to marry, and continue to carry out his duties as Priest?

Tertullian is an early church father, and he was married.


30 posted on 01/30/2011 6:55:51 PM PST by Joyell
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To: Joyell
Tertullian is an early church father, and he was married.

Tertullian was a layman, not a priest. How is his marital status relevant?

I'm sure you're familiar with 1 Cor 7:32-34, where Paul specifically teaches that the unmarried state frees one to better serve God.

34 posted on 01/30/2011 8:37:49 PM PST by Campion
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To: Joyell
Your response to me that I have “very poor comprehension of scripture” would have validity if you had posted a scripture that backed the Catholic belief that church leaders are forbidden to marry.

Incorrect. There are numerous verses in Scripture, which you apparently have never had read to you, in which celibacy is praised. The burden to disprove your incorrect assertion:

I don’t see anything in scripture that says a priest/rabbi/leader of the church should be celibate.

doesn't lie with me. That burden, along with the burden to improve your comprehension, lies with you. I've posted the Scriptural references numerous times in the past, so I have no aversion to doing it again. You however, need to admit that you really don't know what you're talking about.

Doesn’t the Catholic Church look at Peter as the head of the church

No. The Church recognizes that Christ is the head of the Church. He is the bridegroom and the Church is His bride. The Church acknowledges that St. Peter was the rock that Christ built His Church upon and that St. Peter was the first Pope.

He was married because the bible says,

I'm well aware that by mentioning his mother-in-law, Scripture implies that St. Peter was at one time married. Are you aware that St. Peter's wife is never mentioned in Scripture?

If I “glossed over 1 Corinthians”, as you say, then please post the scripture that says Priests/Rabbis/Church Leaders are to remain celibate.

I'll be happy to do that at the end of my post when I provide the litany of Scripture verses which you conveniently have chosen to ignore. However, I want you to admit that in addition to your poor comprehension of Scripture, that a married Priest cannot fully devote himself to both the service of God as well as the care of his family.

If the Catholic Church doesn’t forbid marriage, then are you saying that a Catholic Priest would be allowed to marry, and continue to carry out his duties as Priest?

No I'm not. Are you saying that any man has a right to be ordained to the Priesthood? Number one, 21 of the 22 Churches sui juris which comprise the Catholic Church, ordain, as a norm married men. However, there has never been a time when, once ordained, a single Priest could then lawfully marry and remain in the clerical state. Same as in the Greek Orthodox Church, a denomination whose discipline you apparently have no disagreement with.

In 1 Timothy 3:2, it states...”Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.”

Incorrect. You've quoted 1 Timothy 3:12 not 1 Timothy 3:2. By the way, the Catholic Church has married deacons. The topic at hand, however, is the Priesthood not the Diaconate.

Tertullian is an early church father, and he was married.

Why would you be referencing Tertullian since the basis of your argument has been what you believe is and isn't contained in Scripture? I'm quite certain that if you were actually familiar with the body of his work you wouldn't have mentioned him because he wrote the following:

"Peter alone [among the Apostles] do I find married, and through mention of his mother-in-law. I presume he was a monogamist; for the Church, built upon him, would for the future appoint to every degree of orders none but monogamists. As for the rest, since I do not find them married, I must presume they were either eunuchs or continent." De monogamia 8,4 post AD 213

Will you be posting quotes from other Fathers of the Church which support the discipline of celibacy? I highly doubt it.

The following is provided for your much needed edification:

"Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take it let him take it." Matthew 19:11-12

"Then Peter answering said to Him: Behold we have left all things and have followed Thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you that you, who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of His majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house or brethren or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first shall be last: and the last shall be first. " Matthew 19:27-30 (emphasis added)

"Then Peter said: Behold we have left all things and have followed Thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left home or parents or brethren or wife or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30 (emphasis added)

"But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I." 1 Corinthians 7:8

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord: how he may please God. But he that is with a wife is solicitous for the things of the world: how he may please his wife. And he is divided. And the unmarried woman and the vidgin thinketh on the things of the Lord: that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of the world: how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord without impediment." 1 Corinthians 7:32-35 (emphasis added)

"Labour as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No man, being a soldier to God, entangleth himself with secular businesses: that he may please Him to whom he hath engaged himself." 2 Timothy 2:3-4

"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things: in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16

46 posted on 01/31/2011 8:44:39 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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