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To: CynicalBear
Yes, we all know that Grace and Salvation are free gifts of God, and faith is part of the salvation plan, and that we can't work our way into heaven.

But what does ‘working out my salvation in fear and trembling’ mean? It is the Word ofGod and you just can’t ignore this. And why does God say that He will "repay each person according to what they have done.” He doesn't say He will repay for what they believe.

And how do you understand the fact that the expression "faith alone" only appears once in the Bible—in James 2:24— where it is rejected as a description of how we are justified? You just can’t ignore Scripture that doesn’t support your non-scriptural beliefs.

This is not an either/or thing, but rather "Both And" ALL of Scripture.

103 posted on 01/30/2011 10:01:42 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive
>>He doesn't say He will repay for what they believe<<

No, you are right, He doesn’t. He says that those who are saved will be rewarded for the things they have done for Him as indicated in Romans 2.

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

How faithful was that person in believing? Did they ever falter. Of course he also told us that those who dedicate their lives to helping others and teaching others would be rewarded for that service and faithfulness to the needs of His “little children”.

>>in James 2:24— where it is rejected as a description of how we are justified<<

Ok, let’s look at James 2 but let’s include the previous verses and our understanding of what the description of what works was meant.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Here they are asking about being justified by works, thinking that works meant some action of doing something. 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?Here they are asking if it was the works (Abraham physically taking his son to sacrifice him) that made Abrahams faith perfect. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.In this verse we get the answer to that question. It says that “Abraham believed God”. It was the belief that justified the faith. Abrahams belief was so strong and true that he acted but it wasn’t the action that justified, it was the belief. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.Now from this verse we can begin to understand the following verses from John 6. “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

Now you can put the two passages into better perspective. Jesus explained that the “works” God was talking about was a strong belief that would generate action. It isn’t the action that is rewarded but the belief that cause the action.

Now we can go back up to the top and understand that Jesus said the reward will be for the deeds that were because of belief but it was the belief that justified.

I pray this helps.

106 posted on 01/30/2011 10:41:31 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: FatherofFive
I’m sorry my paragraphs didn’t come through on the last post. My bad proof reading skills I fear.

>>He doesn't say He will repay for what they believe<<

No, you are right, He doesn’t. He says that those who are saved will be rewarded for the things they have done for Him as indicated in Romans 2.

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

How faithful was that person in believing? Did they ever falter. Of course he also told us that those who dedicate their lives to helping others and teaching others would be rewarded for that service and faithfulness to the needs of His “little children”.

>>in James 2:24— where it is rejected as a description of how we are justified<<

Ok, let’s look at James 2 but let’s include the previous verses and our understanding of what the description of what works was meant.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Here they are asking about being justified by works, thinking that works meant some action of doing something.

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?Here they are asking if it was the works (Abraham physically taking his son to sacrifice him) that made Abrahams faith perfect.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.In this verse we get the answer to that question. It says that “Abraham believed God”. It was the belief that justified the faith. Abrahams belief was so strong and true that he acted but it wasn’t the action that justified, it was the belief.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.Now from this verse we can begin to understand the following verses from John 6.

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

Now you can put the two passages into better perspective. Jesus explained that the “works” God was talking about was a strong belief that would generate action. It isn’t the action that is rewarded but the belief that cause the action.

Now we can go back up to the top and understand that Jesus said the reward will be for the deeds that were because of belief but it was the belief that justified.

I pray this helps.

107 posted on 01/30/2011 10:45:14 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: FatherofFive; CynicalBear

Galatians 3:1-14

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Romans 4

What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

Finally....

Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Since we’ve put on Christ, His righteousness becomes ours. Saying that we’re judged by our works, then is not an issue, because our sins are forgiven, and Christ’s righteousness imputed to us when God sees us, He sees us having fulfilled the Law; no sin and our works as *good* works.


120 posted on 01/30/2011 12:08:44 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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