Church is always used singularly, for the church was to be as one. One mind, one faith, one baptism. Just as Jesus prayed for it to be.
And again, it does not necessarily follow that the Roman Catholic church IS that church.
They claim that they are, but that is spurious indeed.
For one thing, the RCC simply cannot trace its roots back to Peter as certainly as they would like everyone to believe. There's too much unknown of the first 300 years of church history.
The other thing is, due to the behavior and practices for most of its history, the Catholic church has basically disqualified itself from being able to claim that it alone is the true church of God on earth.
While I know most Catholics then turn around and argue that no one is perfect and God uses sinful men, yada, yada, yada, we are not talking occasional mistakes, errors in judgment, or falling into sin on occasion, but rather a history replete with immorality and corruption of the worst kind. Deliberate, pre-mediated sin is NOT excusable in any one who desires the office of elder or deacon.
No matter what office or position they held, sexual immorality disqualifies them from holding office by Scriptural command.
Titus 1:5-16 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
1 Timothy 3:1-13 The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.
The clergy of the Catholic church does NOT meet the qualifications set forth here by Paul and for most of its history hasn't. Certainly not men like these ten worst popes.
These men are NOT part of the true church on earth. If the Catholic church owns them, then the Catholic church can no longer claim that title either.
Again, please give the name of any church or sect which has only perfect non-sinners within them.
Please post all the exhortations in the NT of how Christians are to live their lives and treat each other and then assure me that only Catholics do not live up to the standards.
Jesus said, “Be perfect, even as my Father in heaven is perfect.”
Pretty high standards, huh?
Paul says, “The good that I would do, I do not do and the bad that I would not do, I do.”
An APOSTLE admitting that he can’t live up to perfection.
Yet, we are called to try.
And try we do, though we fall short.
I do not disagree that when a man of the cloth, be it a priest or any other protestant clergy it is most painful and detrimental to the Body of Christ.
But, to hold that up in a discussion such as this, is not debate, it is an attack and it has no place here until ALL other Christian ministers also live up to the standards so sanctimoniously presented.
In no way do I defend the actions of bad priests or bishops, they pain me terribly as I know it pains all Catholics, but I am also terribly sick of having it constantly brought up in doctrinal debates and such by people who feign “concern” when their real intent is to wound.
I am a grateful Catholic. I do believe the Church is Christ’s church. I love Him and His Church deeply and am not afraid to defend her.
In the future, please don’t respond to me.
Again, please give the name of any church or sect which has only perfect non-sinners within them.
Please post all the exhortations in the NT of how Christians are to live their lives and treat each other and then assure me that only Catholics do not live up to the standards.
Jesus said, “Be perfect, even as my Father in heaven is perfect.”
Pretty high standards, huh?
Paul says, “The good that I would do, I do not do and the bad that I would not do, I do.”
An APOSTLE admitting that he can’t live up to perfection.
Yet, we are called to try.
And try we do, though we fall short.
I do not disagree that when a man of the cloth, be it a priest or any other protestant clergy it is most painful and detrimental to the Body of Christ.
But, to hold that up in a discussion such as this, is not debate, it is an attack and it has no place here until ALL other Christian ministers also live up to the standards so sanctimoniously presented.
In no way do I defend the actions of bad priests or bishops, they pain me terribly as I know it pains all Catholics, but I am also terribly sick of having it constantly brought up in doctrinal debates and such by people who feign “concern” when their real intent is to wound.
I am a grateful Catholic. I do believe the Church is Christ’s church. I love Him and His Church deeply and am not afraid to defend her.