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A World In Revolt...Psalm 2
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/a-world-in-revolt-psalm-2/ ^ | 01-21-10 | Bill Randles

Posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:25 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

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To: Netizen; blasater1960

There is a Book out..Not sure if anyone has interest..But it is a fascinating read and I am sure will cause much debate on the issue..

Lucifer’s Hidden Name
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(Gen. 1:1)
Now the earth was formless, and void, darkness was over the surface of the deep.
(Gen. 1:2)
There are two primary theories concerning how the earth came to be in a formless, empty, dark, and fluid condition. The first is called the gap theory. The second is called the chaos theory. The simplest way to explain the chaos theory is that when God created the Earth in Genesis 1:1,


41 posted on 01/24/2011 12:44:41 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: blasater1960
Sorry, here is the rest of it! It was basically step 1 in the seven steps or days of his creation program. In other words, God did not intend to leave the earth in a formless, empty, dark, and fluid condition. The gap theory, on the other hand, says that something happened to the earth between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to make it “formless and void.” This theory is based on the Hebrew translation of three words from Genesis 1:2—was, formless, and void. The word for was comes from the verb hayah, and it holds the key meaning of “I am” or “Yah” in the name of Yahweh. In fact, when God redeemed Israel from Egyptian bondage, he used this verb as his name when he said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, “say to the Israelites: “I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.” He also used it to explain Israel’s future regathering and salvation in the Old Testament book that means salvation, the book of Hosea. “After two days (or 2000 years) he will revive (hayah) us; on the third day (at the beginning of 3000 years) he will restore us, that we may live (hayah) in his presence.” (Hos. 6:2) The Talmud (ancient rabbinical writings) teaches that all of creation is embodied within the three letters that constitute this word, the letters Hei Yud Hei. With the letter Hei God created this world, and with the letter Yud, the world to come. In other words, the verb hayah connotes the meaning of life and salvation. It is the catalyst of God’s redemptive and creative works. A prime example of this can be found in the Messianic Psalm 118:21 and the Hebrew translation of “salvation.” I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become (hayah) my salvation. The stone the builders (Israel) rejected has become (hayah) the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Ps. 118:21, 22) The Hebrew translation for salvation is Y’shua. In fact, Y’shua (Jesus) used verse 22found in Matthew 21:42, to explain why the Jewish leaders had rejected him. Yet, notice how God strategically placed the verb hayah or “I AM” right in front of the two words that identify Y’shua as Moshiach. Let us now go the Gospel of John. Jesus replied, ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me…. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58) This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14. Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future. The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment. It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu. At first glance, one might think that the text containing these words is the same as in Genesis 1:2. However, when we closely examine it, we discover that the prophet isn’t specifically referring to that text. there or God’s future judgment against mankind. I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains and lo they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and His fierce anger. (Jer. 4:23–27 KJV) In this prophecy, we have God’s displeasure or fierce anger as the reason for the earth becoming “formless, and void.” Therefore, Genesis 1:1, 2 should be interpreted to read: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth became a desolate, worthless thing because of God’s judgment. Leaving us with the all-important question of why God would use a verb that means “I AM” as a linking verb to destruction? I believe the answer lies in the root translation of this verb. The Hebrew Septuagint (pre-Christian Greek version of the Jewish Scriptures called the Tanakh) has the key meaning of hayah as ego eimi ho on; translated it means “I myself am ego” or “I am He.” In addition, the Strong’s translators from The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible say that within this verb lies the self-designation of God, as “I will be God or I am God clearly a suggestive overtone that the judgments of God in Genesis 2 and Jeremiah 4 are perhaps linked by this so-called self-designation. The gap theory, on the other hand, says that something happened to the earth between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to make it “formless and void.” This theory is based on the Hebrew translation of three words from Genesis 1:2—was, formless, and void. The word for was comes from the verb hayah, and it holds the key meaning of “I am” or “Yah” in the name of Yahweh. In fact, when God redeemed Israel from Egyptian bondage, he used this verb as his name when he said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, “say to the Israelites: “I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.” He also used it to explain Israel’s future regathering and salvation in the Old Testament book that means salvation, the book of Hosea. “After two days (or 2000 years) he will revive (hayah) us; on the third day (at the beginning of 3000 years) he will restore us, that we may live (hayah) in his presence.” (Hos. 6:2) The Talmud (ancient rabbinical writings) teaches that all of creation is embodied within the three letters that constitute this word, the letters Hei Yud Hei. With the letter Hei God created this world, and with the letter Yud, the world to come. In other words, the verb hayah connotes the meaning of life and salvation. It is the catalyst of God’s redemptive and creative works. A prime example of this can be found in the Messianic Psalm 118:21 and the Hebrew translation of “salvation.” I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become (hayah) my salvation. The stone the builders (Israel) rejected has become (hayah) the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Ps. 118:21, 22) The Hebrew translation for salvation is Y’shua. In fact, Y’shua (Jesus) used verse 22found in Matthew 21:42, to explain why the Jewish leaders had rejected him. Yet, notice how God strategically placed the verb hayah or “I AM” right in front of the two words that identify Y’shua as Moshiach. Let us now go the Gospel of John. Jesus replied, ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me…. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58) This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14. Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future. The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment. It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu. At first glance, one might think that the text containing these words is the same as in Genesis 1:2. However, when we closely examine it, we discover that the prophet isn’t specifically referring to that text. http://www.bibleprophecyinthenews.com/lucifer_s_hidden_name__PDF_.pdf In effect, it’s a prolongation of what occurred there or God’s future judgment against mankind. I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains and lo they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and His fierce anger. (Jer. 4:23–27 KJV) In this prophecy, we have God’s displeasure or fierce anger as the reason for the earth becoming “formless, and void.” Therefore, Genesis 1:1, 2 should be interpreted to read: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth became a desolate, worthless thing because of God’s judgment. Leaving us with the all-important question of why God would use a verb that means “I AM” as a linking verb to destruction? I believe the answer lies in the root translation of this verb. The Hebrew Septuagint (pre-Christian Greek version of the Jewish Scriptures called the Tanakh) has the key meaning of hayah as ego eimi ho on; translated it means “I myself am ego” or “I am He.” In addition, the Strong’s translators from The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible say that within this verb lies the self-designation of God, as “I will be God or I am God clearly a suggestive overtone that the judgments of God in Genesis 2 and Jeremiah 4 are perhaps linked by this so-called self-designation.
42 posted on 01/24/2011 12:48:27 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: blasater1960

YIKES!!!!

It did not come out with a COPY and PASTER from the pdf..

Here is the Link..

http://www.bibleprophecyinthenews.com/lucifer_s_hidden_name__PDF_.pdf


43 posted on 01/24/2011 12:49:43 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: jjotto

Right here is where you can see Genesis 18 verified when Abrahm saw the LORD withe the 2 Angels...

Jesus said: Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58)

This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14.

Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future.

The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment.

It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu.


44 posted on 01/24/2011 1:16:07 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Yes, yes. I understand you cling to the New Testament as a way of explaining the Torah, just as some cling to the Book of Mormon to explain the Christian Bible, and just as some cling to Islam to explain the Christian Bible.

But God told the Jewish people when he gave them the Torah to go to the Kohen or Levite or judge with their questions and then to heed their words exactly (Deut 17).

And God told the Jewish people to ask their ancestors and elders about the proper service of God (Deut 32). He didn’t tell them to ask the gentiles.

Zechariah 8 does not say the Jews will grab a gentile and ask about God, it says gentiles will ask Jews!


45 posted on 01/24/2011 1:48:30 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

You do realize he was speaking about Gentile Pagans don’t you????

That really has nothing to do with my question anyway’s..

None of us born today are from the Ancient World, we are modern people that have the ability to read, research, understand and learn about anything, wether it is Science, Politics or Religion.

I don’t need to go to the President to understand the Constitution of the United States, and I don’t need to go to a Rabbi to learn about what is in the Torah.

I can read...

I don’t mean to be dis-respectful, but I was just asking a question about what Abrahm saw when he looked upon G-d who was outside of his tent.


46 posted on 01/24/2011 1:56:38 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: jjotto

What is the Christian Bible?

Isn’t the entire Holy Bible written by Jews?

With the exception of *luke* I don’t think a Christian or a Gentile had any say of what was written in the Holy Scriptures....


47 posted on 01/24/2011 2:09:52 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

The question wasn’t about how smart and self-reliant you are, it is about what God said.

Abraham and the angels:

http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b04r.html#ch18


48 posted on 01/24/2011 2:10:18 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Thanks for the Link.....

I know what G-d said..in reading your link, I see it is not much different in what is written in Genesis 18, however it does not say.What form the LORD had taken, unless I have *Missed* something in the verse...

I don’t see the *Physical Description* of G-d in front of Abraham.

Only the Angels that had the appearance of *Men* which makes sense, because when they left Abraham they went to *Sodom* and they were in the form of human males....

I guess if I could ask this question: Do you yourself believe G-d can take on the appearance of a *human Being*? and if you say no..then I would ask why not? and is there scripture validating that claim...

I would like to read on it....


49 posted on 01/24/2011 2:27:00 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

If one accepts that God is infinite, that idea has consequences, and our words and thoughts can reach their limits of understanding.

An infinite God can communicate with us in a way that we can understand. We can know God’s communication, but not God’s essence. God’s communication can be in the form of a man, as in the case of Abraham in Genesis 18, but it is not God’s essence.

And God prohibits us from worshiping His communications.


50 posted on 01/24/2011 3:27:25 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

This is where I dis-agree with you.....

As I have said several times to you is that Abraham in Genesis 18 was conversing with a person a *Man* a Physical being, do you know of some other kind of entity that can eat human food and have 2 human feet???

Abraham bowed to him, and like on that other post..No Angels would require us to bow before them....

There is a saying: Religion is Man’s attempt to please GOD..(Legalism and Spiritualism) Jesus Christ is G-d coming down to Mankind....

What I at least hope you consider, is that ABraham was speaking to a prson he knew was the *LORD*


51 posted on 01/24/2011 4:08:16 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Thanks Tarah! I will check it out.


52 posted on 01/24/2011 5:38:39 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Ok..Sorry about that long text! It would paste right!

Looking at it made me dizzy!


53 posted on 01/24/2011 6:03:43 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
Looking at it made me dizzy!

Me too. MY EYES!

54 posted on 01/24/2011 6:11:07 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP; All
Abraham says: He saw 3 Men...He did not say he saw 3 Visions or Apparitions, or illuminated figures, he said *Men* 2 Angels and the LORD....

Okay Tarah! They are three angels (angels do appear as men like the angel who wrestled with jacob) Each of the Angels has a specific mission. The first angel (man) tells Sarah of the news of her impending childbirth. His mission is then complete. He stays there as the other two angels go to Sodom and Gemorra. One Angel destroys the city. The other rescues Lot. Remember, when ever it comes to questioning whether or not it is G-d appearing as a person, think of this passage:

Deut 4:12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,

Very clear! You saw NO FORM! G-d has NO FORM. So when G-d uses angels as men to convey His message, we are not to make them god-men!

55 posted on 01/24/2011 7:05:15 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP; blasater1960; jjotto

You know what, instead of moving off to some book, why don’t you address #38 first.


56 posted on 01/24/2011 7:57:53 PM PST by Netizen
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To: blasater1960

Okay..A couple things here...Genesis 18..Abraham bows to the Angel of the LORD..Where is it that Man bows to any Angels in the Tanakh...

Further reading..The LORD sent 2 Angels to Sodom and then the conversation proceeds between Abraham and the Angel of the LORD....I find nothing in Genesis 18 that says Abraham was talking to someone with no form????

Abraham is asking the LORD how many will be spared in Sodom 50, 10 etc....

Now as I asked jjotto...G-d in his infinite nature is a Spirit being, where is it that says G-d cannot transform from a SPiritual being to a Physical being?

How can the Angels be greater than G-d if they can transform into Physical beings and G-d cannot??


57 posted on 01/24/2011 8:13:01 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen

I am not sure I know..

Will research on your question....


58 posted on 01/24/2011 8:14:00 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
What is the Christian Bible?

The New Testament is the Christian Bible. Notice they even have the nerve to call it New as if it somehow REPLACED the original.

Isn’t the entire Holy Bible written by Jews?

Only the Tanach, Old Testament. 72 Jews translated the first 5 books (The Torah) of the OT.

With the exception of *luke* I don’t think a Christian or a Gentile had any say of what was written in the Holy Scriptures....

The New Testament is NOT written by those they say. For instance.

According to Bishop Papias, (Papi/av), c. 125:

"Matthew compiled the reports in a Hebrew manner of speech, but each interpreted them as he could."

Matthew wrote in Hebrew, or more likely, in Aramaic which is a Hebrew dialect that was the language of Jesus' day. He did not write the original Gospel in Greek!

It is obvious that whoever wrote a book called Matthew, the book now known to Christianity and which opens the New Testament was obviously rewritten in Greek by some later person. (most likely written by a Gentile or heavily edited by one) It was probably at that time that the now-cherished traditions of the birth and death accounts were tacked onto the sayings of Jesus! This is also probably when they tried to de-judaize Jesus. jmo

This is what Papias says about Mark:
"And the presbyter would say this: Mark, who was indeed Peter's interpreter, accurately wrote as much as he remembered, yet not in order, about that which was either said or did by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but later, as I said, Peter, who as necessary would make his teachings but not exactly an arrangement of the Lord's reports, so that Mark did not fail by writing certain things as he recalled. For he had one purpose, not to omit what he heard or falsify them."

Begs the question. Just who is this Mark? And since this Mark, is an interpreter for Peter, that means that the Gospel of Mark (deceptively named), isn't even giving a first hand account. Also notice he wrote down the sayings and deeds of Jesus, which exclude the birth and death accounts as we now have them. Now if the "sayings or deeds" of Jesus were all that Mark wrote down, and if, as so many authorities now assert, the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are based on Mark, from where did the genealogies and the birth and death narratives in the Gospels come from? Even with these questions, keep in mind that this particular "Mark" wasn't personally present at the events and sayings he reports.

59 posted on 01/24/2011 8:28:40 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

Why don’t you do that then instead of veering off into 50 different directions.


60 posted on 01/24/2011 8:33:00 PM PST by Netizen
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