Posted on 01/11/2011 3:39:16 AM PST by markomalley
Baal was believed in thousands of years before Christ too...doesn't make the belief true.
Could have been an interesting article if it wasn't for so much catholic revisionist propoganda. Too bad.
If one were to read the Princeton historian Elaine Pagels book, The Gnostic Gospels, she excoriates the Church of forming the canon of scripture to ensure the domination of Catholic/Orthodox positions at the expense of the Gnostics.
Thus, your article reflects the standard non Catholic historical analysis accepted as fact by most objective historians and used by the secular types to attack Catholic/Orthodoxy.. The reformation types operate in a world of historical fiction but they can be amusing.
This article says that Luther “took the seven books that were contested and he called them apocryphal, which means false or spurious.”
And I’m like a “holocaust denier” because I point out that Jerome came up with the term “Apocrypha” in the 5th century?
This “history” is quantifiably false. It can’t even get the original of “Apocrypha” correct. Roman Catholics may affirm like this article, but they do so out of allegiance to Rome, not allegiance to the truth.
If not for the Catholic Church, the Bible would not exist.
The Scriptures existed long before Roman Catholicism ever came along. Where do you think the Scriptures came from that Jesus read in the temple? From Rome?
You give Rome too much credit, and consequently give the Lord too little credit, for the provision of God’s Word.
You need to read objective history by historians who are judged objective by independent scholars. The article presented in this thread fits the characterization of being objective, not tainted with the bias of those who cannot or will analyze with an impartial spirit . Reading objective history will free one from the bias and bigotry which can engulf one who bathes in the morass of self indulgent ignorance.
So you agree with this article that Luther was the first to come up with the idea that some supposedly biblical writings were uninspired, and should become part of the “Apocrypha”? You agree with this article that the “Apocrypha” was Luther’s idea, and that nobody had previously rejected these books?
Or do you disagree with this article?
The formulation of the canon was an arduous task , one that took many centuries, much debate and finally inspired selection by the Church in its Councils. This selection of specific works was accomplished without the input of the “Reformers” who would a thousand years later attempt to prostitute the Word of God. It appears the Justice of God will be severe on those reformers who attempted and who are still attempting to interject their own prideful exegesis into the interpretation of sacred scripture. God bless
Your reply is typical of Roman Catholic apologists. You cannot directly answer my very clear questions, and so you issue an ad hominem attack against those who treasure Christ apart from Rome.
It is clear that pretty much every Roman Catholic FReeper thinks Christ-followers who don’t belong to their particular denomination are heretics. I thank the Lord that I am a member of His Church, and not a member of the wayward Roman church.
Jesus is the Truth and came to teach same Truth to us but many chose to indulge themselves with prideful individual interpretation of scripture which comport to their individual lifestyle be it adulterous, polygamous or any other such deviant behavior.
Objective history has demonstrated that The Church through the Holy Spirit brought your type the bible notwithstanding the fantasy and fiction created by some to distort and revise this salient fact. Thus, be grateful for this gift which you allegedly prize. God bless.
Ironic. You accuse me of “attacking members of His Bride,” and in the same sentence say that I have “abandoned the Truth” since I follow Christ apart from the Church of Rome.
You go on to associate my faith in Christ with adultery, polygamy, and “other such deviant behavior.” You say that I only “allegedly” prize Christ.
You’ve turned yourself into ugly knots trying to defend the historical revisionism presented in this article, bronx2. I thank the Lord that He has called out for Himself a remnant from the wayward body known as the Roman Catholic Church.
Since individual interpretation is so highly prized by the reformers, why then are there over 30,000 discrete imperfect entities in the USA alone? Is the Holy Spirit working in each of these churches or just a few or none at all? Perhaps what we have here are branches of the Church of Satan.
To credibly refute the article the burden of proof rests with you and all I can see is self serving commentary reflective of shallow thought processes. You need to cite objective historians who would refute the contentions made in the given article, not effete conjecture which appears to be the substance of your rant. Abandon the imperfect road to salvation and accept the apostolic church of Christ which has given us the Holy Scripture or continue to reside in a mirage of fantasy quite possibly a prisoner of Satan God bless
Listen, bronx2, it’s become clear that you are only able to defend Roman Catholicism by lying and demonizing.
You refuse to admit that the original article lied when it said that Luther invented the concept of the Apocrypha.
And now you bring up this lie about “30,000 denominations.”
For the love of Truth, please consider where this figure came from. It’s from the “World Christian Encyclopedia” by David Barrett, and refers to the number of religiously distinctive Christian organizations *in the world.* And the figure is actually 20,780, not 30,000. That figure includes 8,196 Protestant jurisdictionally distinct groups and 233 Roman Catholic jurisdictionally distinct groups.
But even that 8,196 figure is misleading. The author of this report identifies 21 major Protestant “traditions” (what we think of as “denominations”) — as well as 16 major Roman Catholic “traditions.”
bronx2, I have informed you of the truth. I plead with you to pursue truth, wherever it lead you, rather than cling to lies out of a passion for defending your particular denomination.
And for the love of Truth, please stop reciting this lie that there are 30,000 denominations. If you do, then it will be clear to all that you’ve abandoned a desire to know Truth and have instead embraced the Father of Lies.
More on the 30,000 denominations lie here, posted by fellow Roman Catholic markomalley:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1956752/posts
If you won’t accept truth from someone whom you consider to be a member of the Church of Satan, perhaps you’ll accept truth from someone of your own denomination.
Having said that, don't think for a minute that I endorse the chaos that is Protestantism.
The issue is not the number of churches. The issue is the number of different doctrines floating about, many of which are antithetical one to another...
Personally, I think it is utterly anti-biblical. Did not St Paul say, Eph 4:3 Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism. 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.
Whether the accurate number of denominations is 3, 30, 300, 3000, 30000, or 3 x 1030, any number > 1 is too many.
Please don't take that as a slam, but face it, there are irreconcilable differences. Look, for example at the soteriology of Luther, Calvin, and Arminius. Lutherans, as far as I know, believe in a sacramental economy (with significant divergence from the beliefs of Catholics and Orthodox), but any true Baptist would shudder with horror at the thought.
And, face it, Theo, if you can't agree on the subject so basic as whether Baptism is regenerative or not, there's a problem. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, remember? I'm not slamming your beliefs one way or the other. I'm a firm believer in God's mercy and hope to have the discussion in heaven when we are no longer seeing through a glass, darkly. But you've got to admit...there ain't one faith. And that's not just between Catholics and Protestants...that's among yourselves.
And that, FRiend, is the point that we're trying to get at. I don't agree with the 30,000 denomination meme...but face it, there are plenty out there, no matter what the number is you choose to assign.
1. To accuse me of being a liar and demonizing is prima facie evidence of abuse which this forum has not permitted and your post should be removed and you should be made to apologize with your remarks censored for this type of abusive behavior.
2. The 30,000 figure comes from IRS PUB 78 which list all entities who apply for tax exempt status. review of their attendant 990, open to public inspection, can be used to discern their purpose and theological bent.
3.Yes I love Truth , Jesus , not some inflated opinion of myself as it appears you are addicted to while ans worship ping yourself
4.It appears the measure of your education and intellectual facilities have been taken and found wanting , yet Jesus loves even imperfect worshipers such as you.
You need to allow the sacramental graces given freely by Jesus to enter your life as to prepare yourself for the eternal journey. Imperfect and flawed and uneducated as you may be, remember, there is hope for your eternal salvation God bless
Words like "false" "wrong" "error" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Read the link.
I don’t dispute the figure of 30,000 Protestant denominations.
All I’m saying is that using that *same* methodology, then there are 200+ Catholic “denominations.”
Using that methodology, each religious institute is a denomination (the Jesuits, the Benedictines, the Dominicans, etc.)
I suggest you look up the links yourself before you start accusing me.
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