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To: cothrige
Mediums, clairvoyants and seances are the definitive part of spiritualism. It is what makes them spiritualists

Again, not so. Since you have begun the practice of using insults, I will throw it right back at you and say you are not only the ignorant one, but naive as well.

The general belief that one can communicate with the dead is spiritualism and it has all kinds of shapes and flavors. Many people go through a medium because they don't have confidence in their own abilities, others may feel more comfortable in a group setting and participate in seances, but there are also many, many individuals who attempt to contact the dead on their own.

Whatever form it takes, contacting those beyond the grave is unhealthy even if one claims to be communicating with a christian. There is no reason to think that anyone beyond the grave has clout with God concerning what goes on here on Earth. Mixing it up with those beyond the grave invites confusion about what it is to be walking in Christ.

When you're going to pray to somone in the spirit pray to God. Jesus opened up the way for believers to approach the throne of grace and that's superlative news and what the Book of Hebrews is all about. God is more than able and there's no reason not to, except for a mistaken belief that you, if a believer, are barred from His presence.

68 posted on 01/13/2011 3:15:18 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
The general belief that one can communicate with the dead is spiritualism and it has all kinds of shapes and flavors.

Incorrect. Spiritualism is in fact a specific religion, with distinctive tenets. If you use the word spiritualism in a manner not meaning the specific religion then it refers to the belief that the dead can communicate directly with the living through a medium. All uses of spiritualism relate to people who believe that the spirits of the dead can be brought to engage in active two-way communication with the living. All of this is unlike Catholicism on multiple fronts.

1. God is the God of the living, not the dead. The saints are not dead, but alive in Christ.

2. Catholics do not believe that the "dead" communicate with the living, or that such a thing should be attempted, but rather that the petitions of the living are heard by those alive in Christ. The "communication" spoken of by spiritualists, and other such people, has nothing in common with the petitions we place before the saints. Ouija boards have nothing to do with the Ave Maria.

Your insistence that what you (wrongly, as I have shown) interpret as a similarity between Catholicism and one slim part of spiritualism, while leaving out all the distinctive elements of that movement, is silly and wrong. Using that ridiculous "logic" I could equally legitimately claim that all Muslims are Christian. They pray to God, and Christians pray to God, and so they are Christians! Silly. Both Christianity and Islam are defined by much more than that.

There is no reason to think that anyone beyond the grave has clout with God concerning what goes on here on Earth.

Then why do you think you have clout? Every Protestant I know asks for the prayers of other believers, and yet if you can go to God, why ask each other? Do you really think any other sinful human being currently living in this world "has clout with God"?

What separates you and I is that I don't think God is the God of the dead, but the living. Christians are Christian here, and in the next life. We are to pray for one another and ask one another for prayers in this life, and in the next. Clout does not enter into it, love does. We should love one another. Death is not the end of love as you seem to think.

69 posted on 01/13/2011 5:08:39 PM PST by cothrige
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