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To: cothrige
To pray is to ask earnestly, beg, plead, implore, and so on.

Yes, it was in 17th century vernacular. You can use it today but that would mean that when you beg the tax-collector to lower your taxes you will be "praying" to him/her? When a child pleads for his Mom not to spank him/ her that would be "praying to her? Uh...yeah, right. I think we both know that is not today's sense of the word.

Don't attempt to communicate to those beyond the grave. It's spiritualism. The only one worthy of our prayers today is God.

62 posted on 01/12/2011 1:01:08 PM PST by what's up
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To: what's up
Don’t attempt to communicate to those beyond the grave. It’s spiritualism. The only one worthy of our prayers today is God.

Don’t be silly. Spiritualism refers to people who attempt to communicate with dead spirits via mediums and seances. The Ave Maria has nothing at all in common with such silliness, and you know it.

Yes, it was in 17th century vernacular. You can use it today but that would mean that when you beg the tax-collector to lower your taxes you will be “praying” to him/her? When a child pleads for his Mom not to spank him/ her that would be “praying to her? Uh...yeah, right. I think we both know that is not today’s sense of the word.

The word 'pray' has shifted in usage but not in meaning, and this has not even been complete. While it is no longer common to say "Please, I pray you, don't do that," one can still here "Pray tell..." which is a continuation of the older usage. But, in no case does 'pray' mean more than implore or plead. People just don't usually use it when not speaking of a religious or spiritual act rather than a direct physical one. In this way only has the usage developed, though again, not the meaning.

Most importantly, and completely in opposition to your claims, the word "pray" has never meant "worship." Only those who have refused to give God proper worship in the Eucharistic sacrifice have taken to believing that everything else associated with a life of faith, i.e. singing, praying and preaching, are in fact “worship.” When you exclude from your life those things which constitute true worship of God, you have to elevate what remains to the status of that which you rejected. Your position results not from our actually worshiping saints, by prayer or anything else, but rather from your refusal to continue in giving true worship to God himself.

63 posted on 01/13/2011 10:57:28 AM PST by cothrige
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