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Father Corapi: The Catholic Church Ultimately Cannot Fail In Her Mission!
Courageous Priest ^ | 1-1-11 | Fr Corapi

Posted on 01/01/2011 3:34:33 PM PST by mlizzy

Reflecting the thought of the church through the ages, the Catechism (#760) reminds us that Christians of the first centuries said, “The world was created for the sake of the Church.” God created the world for the sake of communion with his divine life, a communion brought about by the “convocation” of men in Christ, and this “convocation” is the Church. Many people have problems with the Church quite simply because they do not understand its origins, its mission, or its end. The Catholic Church is not a mere human invention, like a political or social entity. The Church is of divine institution; Jesus Christ himself instituted the Church, not mere men after his Ascension (#763-766)

We recall a striking scene from the Gospel of Matthew: Jesus and his disciples are passing through the region of Caesarea Philippi – a region known for its pagan religions. The Mater asks his disciples who they say that the Son of Man is. It was perhaps one of the first public opinion polls regarding Christianity. The results of such polls of mere personal opinions, then as now, are less than satisfying: “Some say John the Baptizer, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” These were conflicting and contradictory guesses and opinions that have none of the ring of authority and authenticity the human spirit needs in order to walk confidently in the dark night of faith. Then, one voice rang out, the voice of Simon: “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God!” The response of the Lord is the definitive answer when it comes to answering the question, “Who founded the Church?”: “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it.” Note who the “I” is: the “I” is a divine person, the subject of action is divine; God himself institutes the Church. The Church is not a mere human institution. Christ, the eternal Word, the Father’s Son, institutes and builds his Church on the “Rock.”

All through the Old Testament, “Rock” with an uppercase”R” refers to God himself. Then in the Gospel of Matthew referred to above, we see Jesus, the “Rock,” because he is a divine subject of action, renaming Simon “Rock.” Jesus, the real “Rock,” is also referred to as the “bridegroom” or “groom” as well in Scripture. The Church is his “bride” (#796). We know, also from the Word, that in marriage, whether natural or supernatural, the “two become one flesh.” Jesus and his church are one; bridegroom and bride are one. Hence, Christ is naming Peter “Rock”, one with himself. There is no other “Rock” other than Christ absolutely speaking. However, the Rock, in a mystical marriage, unites his beloved bride, the Church, to himself. Simon is named “Rock”, and whoever hears the Rock Peter is hearing the Rock who is Christ; whoever rejects the Rock who is Peter, rejects the Rock Christ and the One who sent him, the Father.

You cannot separate the Lord Jesus from his beloved body and bride, the Church. To reject the teaching of Peter and his successors the Roman pontiffs, together with the bishops who are united with the Holy Father in teaching the one faith which has been handed down faithfully from the apostles, is to reject the teaching of Jesus Christ, and the One who sent him, the Father (cf. Luke 10:16).

The Catholic Church can never fail ultimately, although her members can and do. The Church is far more than the sum of her human members, for if that were the case the Church would surely have fallen long ago. The most important member of the Church is her head, Christ the Lord (#792-795). The soul of the Church, the life-giving power, the animator and sanctifier of the Church, is the Holy Spirit. The head and soul of the Church is God; the Church will never fail. The storms of time and the tempests stirred up by earthly kings and rulers come and go; their crowns rise and fall, and roll in the dust but the Church goes on. Mere personal opinions come and go. Some say this, some say that, but mere personal opinion cannot move the Rock.

Head and body are one; bridegroom and bride are one. Those who attack the Church attack Christ. When Saul of Tarsus was persecuting the newborn church on his way to Damascus, he was knocked off his horse by the light who is Christ. “He fell to the ground and at the same time heard a voice saying, ‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?’ ‘Who are you, sir?’ he asked. The voice answered, ‘I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting.’” Saul was “breathing murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples,” against the Church. Christ told him clearly that he was persecuting him, Jesus, the Lord. Christ and his church are one. To love Jesus truly, we must love his church.

In an age of violence and violent change, it is comforting to know that we are so intimately one with Christ, residing in his body and his bride, the Church. Transcending time and space, the Church is relevant to all people at all times and in all places. Indeed, to be rooted in the Rock, to be one with the Rock, keeps us from being swept away by the strife and storms of any time and any place.


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KEYWORDS: catholic; corapi
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To: Mr Rogers

I think not only the Apostles were ignorant of “Mary_wife of God”, but i am as well. Please explain who teaches this. I share your distaste for ignorance, let’s try to stamp it out together!!


21 posted on 01/01/2011 9:20:59 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism (( the truth will set you free ))
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To: Jeff Chandler

Amen.


22 posted on 01/01/2011 9:21:04 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism (( the truth will set you free ))
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To: Jeff Chandler

Good point! Neither is Millineum (1,000 years) but teaching is throughtout Scripture. I’m sure most of the youngest of Bible students know “Trinity” is the word for three, “The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit” the Three in One.

Let us understand; knowing these things does not give us a license to sin: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace abound? God forbid (don’t even think it)How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?” (Romans 6:1-2)
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)

Note: We know wages is something we earn, something we work for, but a gift is already paid for, a gift requires two things: a giver and a receiver, Praise God!

You have seen the tract that is titled: “Which Church Saves?” Of course the answer is: “None of them! Jesus Saves!”

I love the statement: “SALVATION IS A GIFT TO BE RECEIVED, NOT A GOALTO BE ACHIEVED”


23 posted on 01/02/2011 3:22:17 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: JesusIsLord

Amen & Amen! For both myself, my wife and my children! The Lord Jesus our Saviour came to seek and save the lost. Yes, He came to save sinners, which all men have sinned and came short of His glory!

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. By whom we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1-2)


24 posted on 01/02/2011 3:28:25 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: JesusIsLord

Amen & Amen! For both myself, my wife and my children! The Lord Jesus our Saviour came to seek and save the lost. Yes, He came to save sinners, which all men have sinned and came short of His glory!

“Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. By whom we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1-2)


25 posted on 01/02/2011 3:28:25 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Hello! I have always heard “Hail Mary, mother of God” and it was always in Roman Catholic schools and colleges.

When Jesus spoke of “He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood”.....ended the conversation with: “It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)

By the way, does the Roman Catholic Church allow the clergy & laity take both the loaf (bread) and the cup?


26 posted on 01/02/2011 3:40:14 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: Mr Rogers

Well, it is really only an extension of the leadership role that Peter had among the 12: he personally was given the “keys of the kingdom of heaven”.

That Peter had the role of vicar seems undeniable to me anyway...the question is to what degree it was passed on to his successors.


27 posted on 01/02/2011 4:23:28 AM PST by Claud
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To: mlizzy

Thanks for the post! I just bookmarked the site.

Happy New Year.


28 posted on 01/02/2011 5:09:24 AM PST by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: Not gonna take it anymore

You are welcome! Happy New Year to you too!


29 posted on 01/02/2011 5:54:12 AM PST by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

“I think not only the Apostles were ignorant of “Mary_wife of God”, but i am as well. Please explain who teaches this.”

Pope John Paul II.

” In the light of the marital covenant, Mary, the Virgin of Nazareth, is the preeminent “virgin-Israel” of the prophet Jeremiah. In her the marital love of God announced by the prophets is perfectly and definitively focused. She is also that virgin-spouse to whom it is granted to conceive and bear the Son of God: the special fruit of God’s marital love towards humanity, is represented by and almost summarized in Mary.

5. The Holy Spirit, which comes down upon Mary during the Annunciation, is the one who, in the Trinity’s relationship, expresses in his person the marital love of God, the “eternal” love. In that instant he is in a special way God-the Spouse. In the mystery of the Incarnation, in the human conception of God’s Son, the Holy Spirit maintains divine transcendence. Luke’s text expresses that in a precise way. The nuptial quality of God’s love has a completely spiritual and supernatural character. What John will say regarding the believers in Christ is valid all the more for the Son of God, who was conceived in the womb of the Virgin “not by natural generation, nor by human choice, nor by man’s decision, but of God” (Jn. 1:13). But it especially expresses the supreme union in love, brought about between God and a human being by the power of the Holy Spirit.

6. In this divine marriage with humanity Mary answers the angel’s announcement with the love of a spouse who is able to respond and to adjust to the divine choice in a perfect way. For this reason, especially since St Francis of Assisi’s time, the Church calls her “the spouse of the Holy Spirit”. Only this perfect marital love, deeply rooted in her total virginal self-gift to God, could have brought it about that Mary became the “Mother of God” in a conscious and worthy fashion, through the mystery of the Incarnation.

In the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater I wrote: “The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God, offering ‘the full submission of intellect and will ... and freely assenting to the truth revealed by him’, indeed abandoning herself totally to God through ‘the obedience of faith’, whereby she replied to the angel: ‘Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word” (n. 26).”

L’Osservatore Romano May 7, 1990

http://www.miraclerosarymission.org/hs130.htm


30 posted on 01/02/2011 6:58:03 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: LetMarch

just as I thought, you have no proof of “deifying” Mary.

do you think John understood John 6? I guess not in your mind, since you join the Gnostics in denying the Real Presence as attested to by St John’s pupil St. Ignatius.

What does Luke 22 say in your Bible, “This represents my Body” or as mine says “This is My Body”?

At Mass this morning, both the Body and Blood were offered to the faithful. You do realize that whether you receive the Body alone, the Blood alone, or both, it is the same Jesus?


31 posted on 01/02/2011 7:09:35 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: LetMarch

you are correct, Jesus does save. How does He do it? By adding to The Church all that are to be saved. ( the Church is His Body )


32 posted on 01/02/2011 7:09:40 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Claud

“Well, it is really only an extension of the leadership role that Peter had among the 12: he personally was given the “keys of the kingdom of heaven”. / That Peter had the role of vicar seems undeniable to me anyway...”

The keys of the kingdom of heaven open heaven up - to the Jews, at Pentecost, and to the Gentiles, with Cornelius. Although Peter is respected by others, he is not treated as the Vicar of Christ - a term that was applied to the Holy Spirit, and not regularly used of the Pope until 1300 AD.

He is rebuked by Paul in Galatians, who says Peter “drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.” As an ex-military man, I’ve never met a General who feared the Captains...

And at the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, Peter offers advice, but it is JAMES who says, “19Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God”. James led the council, not Peter.

And Peter himself wrote, “17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”

Peter points to scripture, not himself. And why does he point to scripture? Because in the next verse he writes, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you...” We are to be protected by the word of God, not his successors - although Peter COULD have written, “But when false teachers arise, my successors as Vicar of Christ in Rome will teach you the truth...”.

But he didn’t.


33 posted on 01/02/2011 7:10:38 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Mr Rogers
The keys of the kingdom of heaven open heaven up - to the Jews, at Pentecost, and to the Gentiles, with Cornelius.

Be careful of making this passage into a generic. The Greek says I will give "you" the keys: "you" second person singular. These aren't just random keys floating around--they are keys that are given to someone. If your interpretation of the keys opening heaven up are true, then you are saying Christ granted Peter this ability.

And if James indeed led the Council of Jerusalem (that's open to debate) it still should trouble no one. If you look at the history of the early Councils of the Church, they were often convened by bishops and patriarchs from the East. But then the acts of the Council would be forwarded to Rome, or one of the Pope's legates would be present, and he would approve or refuse them as appropriate.

Look, it really is beyond any question that Peter was the leader of the Apostles. We hear of "Peter and the Twelve". We never hear of "James and the Twelve".

But I will agree with you in this sense, that the Biblical model of Peter and the Apostles models for us what the proper relation of the Pope to his brother bishops should be. I actually happen to think Paul's correction of Peter is in the Bible for an extremely important reason. The Pope cannot be a tyrant. If Peter can be corrected on a behavioral matter by Paul, then we can do the same of a Pope. If Peter did not feel the need to run every synod dictatorially (as with James), then the Pope shouldn't either. If Peter can mess up and run away, if Peter can be rebuked with "Get thee behind me Satan", then the Pope can too.

But even with all those caveats in place, Peter was unquestionably the leader of the group. He had a special authority not shared by James or John or any other Apostle.

34 posted on 01/02/2011 7:37:47 AM PST by Claud
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To: Mr Rogers; mlizzy

Here’s the entire piece. It is a stunning exposition of God’s love and “espousal.” The Latin word “SPONSALIA” means one betrothed, one promised rather than married.

Latin is the language of the Church.

God’s ‘Marital love’ For Humanity

At his General Audience (2 May) the Holy Father continued his series of instructions on the Holy Spirit.

1. The revelation of the Holy Spirit in the Annunciation event is linked to the mystery of the Incarnation of the Son of God and Mary’s divine motherhood. In fact Luke states that the angel said to Mary, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you” (Lk. 1:35). Once again it is the action of the Holy Spirit which prompts in her the response through which a conscious act of human freedom was expressed: “May it be done to me according to your word” (Lk. 1:38). Thus in the Annunciation event we find the perfect “model” of the personal God-man relationship.

Already in the Old Testament this relationship offers a characteristic element. It comes to life within the sphere of God’s Covenantwith the chosen people (Israel). And in the prophetic texts this Covenant is expressed through wedding symbolism: that is, it is presented as a marriage relationship between God and humanity. This fact must be remembered if we are to understand in its depth and beauty the reality of the Son’s Incarnation as an especially full manifestation of the work of the Holy Spirit.

2. According to the Prophet Jeremiah, God tells his people: “With age-old love I have loved you: so I have kept my mercy towards you. Again I will restore you and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel”(Jer. 31:3-4). Historically this text is to be seen in relationship with Israel’s defeat and deportation to Assyria; that humiliated the chosen people who were reduced to thinking they had been abandoned by their God. But God reassures them by not hesitating to speak to them as a father or as a spouse to a beloved maiden. The marital analogy becomes clearer and explicit in the words of second Isaiah, directed to Jerusalem during the time of the Babylonian exile as to a spouse even though she did not keep fidelity to the God of the Covenant: “He who has become your husband is your maker; his name is the Lord of hosts ... Like a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit, the Lord calls you back, a wife married in youth and then cast off, says your God. For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with great tenderness I will take you back. In an outburst of wrath, for a moment I hid my face from you; but with enduring love I take pity on you, says the Lord, your redeemer” (Is 54:5-8).

3. In the texts cited, it is stressed that the marital love of the God of the Covenant is “eternal”. Even though God, faced with the spouse’s sin, the infidelity of the chosen people permits sad experiences to befall them, he still reassures them through the prophets that his love does not cease. He overcomes the evil of sin, in order to give himself once again. With still more explicit wording, the Prophet Hosea declares: “I will espouse you to me forever, I will espouse you in right and in justice, in love and in mercy; I-will espouse you in fidelity, and you shall know the Lord (Hosea 2:21-22).

4. These extraordinary texts of the Old Testament prophets find their true fulfillment in the mystery of the Incarnation. The marital love of God towards Israel but also towards every person, is carried out in the Incarnation in a way which goes beyond the measure of people’s expectations. We discover this in the Annunciation passage where the New Covenant becomes known as the Covenant of God’s marriage with mankind, of divinity with humanity. In the light of the marital covenant, Mary, the Virgin of Nazareth, is the preeminent “virgin-Israel” of the prophet Jeremiah. In her the marital love of God announced by the prophets is perfectly and definitively focused. She is also that virgin-spouse to whom it is granted to conceive and bear the Son of God: the special fruit of God’s marital love towards humanity, is represented by and almost summarized in Mary.

5. The Holy Spirit, which comes down upon Mary during the Annunciation, is the one who, in the Trinity’s relationship, expresses in his person the marital love of God, the “eternal” love. In that instant he is in a special way God-the Spouse. In the mystery of the Incarnation, in the human conception of God’s Son, the Holy Spirit maintains divine transcendence. Luke’s text expresses that in a precise way. The nuptial quality of God’s love has a completely spiritual and supernatural character. What John will say regarding the believers in Christ is valid all the more for the Son of God, who was conceived in the womb of the Virgin “not by natural generation, nor by human choice, nor by man’s decision, but of God” (Jn. 1:13). But it especially expresses the supreme union in love, brought about between God and a human being by the power of the Holy Spirit.

6. In this divine marriage with humanity Mary answers the angel’s announcement with the love of a spouse who is able to respond and to adjust to the divine choice in a perfect way. For this reason, especially since St Francis of Assisi’s time, the Church calls her “the spouse of the Holy Spirit”. Only this perfect marital love, deeply rooted in her total virginal self-gift to God, could have brought it about that Mary became the “Mother of God” in a conscious and worthy fashion, through the mystery of the Incarnation.

In the Encyclical Redemptoris Mater I wrote: “The Holy Spirit had already come down upon her, and she became his faithful spouse at the Annunciation, welcoming the Word of the true God, offering ‘the full submission of intellect and will ... and freely assenting to the truth revealed by him’, indeed abandoning herself totally to God through ‘the obedience of faith’, whereby she replied to the angel: ‘Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word” (n. 26).

7. In Mary’s act and gesture which contrast as a mirror image with Eve’s behavior, she stands out in humanity’s spiritual history as the new Spouse, the new Eve, the Mother of the living, as the Doctors and Fathers of the Church will often say. She will be the type and model of the New Covenant as a nuptial union of the Holy Spirit with individuals and with the human community, far beyond the sphere of ancient Israel: the totality of individuals and peoples will be called to receive the gift and become its beneficiary in the new community of believers who have received “the power to become sons and daughters of God” (Jn. 1:12) and in Baptism are born again “of the Spirit” (Jn. 3:6) by entering into and belonging to God’s family.

L’Osservatore Romano May 7, 1990
Reprinted with Permission

Beautiful imagery.


35 posted on 01/02/2011 7:42:43 AM PST by OpusatFR
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To: Mr Rogers

Just as i thought, i don’t see anywhere “Mary_wife of God”. Do you deny Mary conceived a Son by the power of the Holy Spirit? Just more false accusations designed to give the unlearned a false picture of what the Church, the Bride of Christ, teaches. Doesn’t it bother you?


36 posted on 01/02/2011 8:23:03 AM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Is it not deifying Mary when you pray to her. Is it not someone when you say she has no sin, or has no sin, that is not making the a god? My dictionary says to make a god of, to treat as a god?

Back in the fall of 63 a Jewish friend asked a group of us engineers: “Why do the Roman Catholics pray to Mary; and the Protestant do not?”

I was studying in 2 Timothy chapter 2 that morning. I answered:
I don’t know either, here in 2 Tim. 2:3-6 it says; “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is “one mediator” between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”

In Hebrews 4:14-16 it says: “Seeing then we do have a great high priest that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God; let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”

“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” (Hebrews 12:1-2)

Please tell me why we need any of all these things mere mortal men added to the church just about 200 to 250 years ago?


37 posted on 01/02/2011 8:33:04 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

In Peter’s address to the Sandhedrian he said: “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

Yes Jesus saves and as Peter and the other apostles preached in Acts: “We ought to obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, when ye slew and hanged Him on a tree. Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” (Acts 5:29-31)

And it is true that: “The Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.” Only He can save them, them He adds them to His body the Church. (Acts 2:47)

We cannot improve, nor add any name, nor work for, merit anything to God’s work of atonement, redeemption for sins that He, Jesus, has already done.


38 posted on 01/02/2011 8:49:27 AM PST by LetMarch (If a man knows the right way to live, and does not live it, there is no greater coward. (Anonymous)
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To: Mr Rogers
We are to be protected by the word of God, not his successors

2 Tim 2:2 says that the men ordained by the apostles to the episcopate -- the "faithful men" Paul speaks of -- have a role to play, also.

The Church learned very early that every heretic quotes Scripture (a line I'm paraphrasing from one of the church fathers) and they still do. If the word of God protects us by itself, there would be no need for the kind of apologetic and counter-cult organizations that even the most evangelical of Protestants support. (Christian Research Institute, for example.)

The existence of such organizations demonstrates the practical need for a human teaching authority to authoritatively determine what Scripture means in case of a dispute, and to legislate how to apply it to specific circumstances. (Actually you have such a human teaching authority whether you want to or not -- the only real question is whether it's the man you see in the mirror in the morning, or someone else.)

"Vicar" merely means "administrative deputy". (The "vicar" of a parish is another name for its pastor; he acts as the administrative deputy of the bishop.) As for Scriptural warrant for that, try John 21:15-19.

Peter points to Scripture, not to himself? So does Benedict XVI.

Peter being afraid of the circumcision party? He was a man. Men are sometimes cowards, and sometimes commit gross sins.

39 posted on 01/02/2011 10:06:39 AM PST by Campion
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To: LetMarch
Please tell me why we need any of all these things mere mortal men added to the church just about 200 to 250 years ago?

In the case of prayer to Blessed Mary (cf Luke 1:48), you'd be closer if you said 1800 years ago.

Is it not someone when you say she has no sin, or has no sin, that is not making the a god?

Think carefully about what you're saying. You're saying, essentially, that someone has to commit sin to be human. Not only does that get it exactly backwards -- sin dehumanizes us, it doesn't humanize us -- but think carefully about Adam and Eve before the Fall. They hadn't sinned. Were they gods? Was their sin inevitable? (Hint: no orthodox christian ought to say yes to either question.)

40 posted on 01/02/2011 10:12:15 AM PST by Campion
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