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To: A_perfect_lady; Alamo-Girl; xzins; spirited irish; wmfights; r9etb; YHAOS; TXnMA; MHGinTN; ...
Okay, if that's what you want: can you please clarify which laws are "higher" and which laws are "lower"?

Well, one would think that "higher laws" would be those conducive to human personal (and social, since man is "a social animal") well-being, most importantly including those conducive to a proper understanding of the order of Reality of which humans are parts and participants. We do not "make the rules" of the universe; such "rules" preexist us, and we live in them, according to them. We were born into them: They are "givens," about which humans were never consulted.

As for any "lower laws" — I think those are the ones that man makes for himself, by himself — through legislators and regulators for instance. That is, without conscious regard to the idea of there being any necessary universal truths, independent of human will.

Though it might get me into trouble with some of my Christian confreres to say so, the ancient Hermetic tradition actually obviates the entire distinction as between "higher" and "lower" laws.

This tradition harkens back to Hermes Trisgemistus. There are two schools of thought regarding this guy: (1) He was a complete fabrication of human imaginings; (2) he was a real historical figure, as attested to by numerous contemporaries and their descendants.

I do not know which is true. All I know (not being on the scene at the time to see for myself) is what is attributed to him: In regard to universal law, he said: "As above, so below." That is, no matter how many dimensions or spheres of reality there may turn out to be, there is only One Law that governs them all. For there is finally only One universe, one world system, a single Unity which at the same time lawfully manifests a virtual riot of diversity at all scales.

The Mandelbrot Set comes to mind as a "concrete" illustration of this insight.

The Source of such law can only be divine.

Which is to say that only what we have called "the 'higher law'" ultimately rules. "Lower law" — by contrast — is only as good as it images the "higher" one.

By which route I come to the conclusion: The Lord our God is One God; and His Creation — comprising Heaven and Earth — is one cosmos that lawfully manifests His Truth and and His creative (and sustaining) Will — at all scales and "times."

FWIW.

143 posted on 01/04/2011 4:39:15 PM PST by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop
The Lord our God is One God; and His Creation — comprising Heaven and Earth — is one cosmos that lawfully manifests His Truth and and His creative (and sustaining) Will — at all scales and "times."

Dear Sister, it was worth wading through this entire thread -- just to encounter that gem!

144 posted on 01/04/2011 5:44:17 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias...)
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To: betty boop
Well, one would think that "higher laws" would be those conducive to human personal (and social, since man is "a social animal") well-being, most importantly including those conducive to a proper understanding of the order of Reality of which humans are parts and participants. We do not "make the rules" of the universe; such "rules" preexist us, and we live in them, according to them. We were born into them: They are "givens," about which humans were never consulted. As for any "lower laws" — I think those are the ones that man makes for himself, by himself — through legislators and regulators for instance. That is, without conscious regard to the idea of there being any necessary universal truths, independent of human will.

I'll need examples.

146 posted on 01/04/2011 5:57:06 PM PST by A_perfect_lady (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: betty boop; A_perfect_lady; Alamo-Girl; xzins; wmfights; r9etb; YHAOS; TXnMA; MHGinTN

snip: In regard to universal law, he said: “As above, so below.” That is, no matter how many dimensions or spheres of reality there may turn out to be, there is only One Law that governs them all. For there is finally only One universe, one world system, a single Unity which at the same time lawfully manifests a virtual riot of diversity at all scales.

Spirited: Man has always lived by revelation and Hermes Trismegistus was no exception. In contemporary terms, Trismegistus was an “astral plane traveler.” During one of his “out of body” experiences he encountered a great Red Dragon that later appeared to him as a beautiful spirit of light.

It was the Dragon who revealed to Hermes the “occult secret” (wisdom teaching) of “as above so below,” meaning that only the natural dimension exists and everything is therefore a part of nature (or the cosmos, matter + energy, the Force, etc). This is the doctrine of Monism.

The god of occult philosophy has many guises, but in this case God is an incomplete, inept, impersonal deity who requires man to “complete him,” that is, restore him to his pre-temporal wholeness. Man is therefore a part of the process of salvation. God is saved by man in other words.

This is the specific teaching of Hegel. Marx stripped Hegel’s dialectic of its’ spiritual aspect to make it a secularized version: material dialectics.

A fine example of Monistic reasoning is in the writings of Meister Eckhart (1260-1328), a German mystic. Eckhart writes:

“God’s divinity comes of my humility.” There follows a lengthy, wild, rambling explanation of why this is the case. In conclusion, Eckhart writes: “Therefore, if God is to exercise his divine property by his gifts, he may well need my humility; for apart from humility he can give nothing...That is why it is true that by my humility I give divinity to God.”

Monism is like a coin. One side is evolutionary materialism and the other is evolutionary pantheistic vitalism. At bottom, both deliver the same message: “Ye can be as God.” This means that Hermes “One Law” is the law of god-men spiritually energized by the Dragon.


153 posted on 01/05/2011 4:54:06 AM PST by spirited irish
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