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To: wmfights; Yudan; cizinec
"The EO have fallen into the same trap as the RC, only to a lesser degree, because they have accepted "tradition" as an equal of Scripture."

It's not a matter of Holy Tradition being superior to Scripture, rather Scripture is part of the Holy Tradition of The Church. It was Holy Tradition which those Greek speaking bishops in the 4th century used to measure the theological quality and Apostolic pedigree of the many writings contending for a place in the universal canon of Scripture for the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, as the God Bearing Fathers of the the 2nd Ecumenical Council called it.

"Then the question the EO should be asking is how different are your religious services from the Apostolic Era and the generations immediately following."

Well, close and not so close. The earliest liturgy in use is the Divine Liturgy of +James which is used almost exclusively in the Patriarchate of Jerusalem. I've only seen it once and it is quite similar to our regular Sunday liturgy. It is very very long, hours long. The Church speculates that it dates from about 60-70 AD but it has clearly been updated with Trinitarian theology as it developed in the 4th century. Personally, I think the anaphorae are 1st century. The Liturgy we will celebrate tonight, the Divine Liturgy of +Basil the Great is a relative late comer, being from the 300s. So the same, no, but sort of a generation or two removed from what they were celebrating in Jerusalem in, say, 75 AD.

47 posted on 12/31/2010 11:06:11 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis; Yudan; cizinec
It's not a matter of Holy Tradition being superior to Scripture, rather Scripture is part of the Holy Tradition of The Church.

Please don't misrepresent what I said, that is a RC practice. I haven't encountered that from the EO before and hope that was an error. What I said was the EO accept their "tradition" (dress it up as you will) as an equal of Scripture. Accepting anything as an equal of Scripture as the rule of your faith will inevitably lead to heresy.

One thought as to why the EO did not have a Reformation is the influence of muslim domination. I agree that the refusal to accept the RC Pope as your supreme ruler is also a factor.

52 posted on 12/31/2010 12:04:20 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Kolokotronis

“It’s not a matter of Holy Tradition being superior to Scripture, rather Scripture is part of the Holy Tradition of The Church.”

Thank you. I was getting around to that eventually. :)

As for our ancestors recognizing our liturgy, I’m Serbian and our hymnography has become distinctly Russian. That’s for another thread on another message list.


54 posted on 12/31/2010 12:12:45 PM PST by cizinec
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To: Kolokotronis; wmfights; bkaycee; metmom

You didn’t even get out of the gate before you added and twisted to what the poster said, which they didn’t say. Rather you took a shot to indirectly make a statement...”It’s not a matter of Holy Tradition being superior to Scripture”...which they never stated. And somehow Scripture didn’t warrent a ‘Holy’ just tradition. Humm-mmm...very interesting.

Further... you twisted/reversed the order the poster used giving scripture second place to tradition. Not to mention adding ‘Holy’ to tradition should somehow make tradition more than it is. Amazing.

There is another who did likewise in the garden with Eve.


67 posted on 12/31/2010 4:17:20 PM PST by caww
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