Posted on 12/31/2010 7:33:30 AM PST by bkaycee
One drawback of the English language that is just a pain to work around.
What an absolutely preposterous statement. The Church has never restricted my access to any literature and has never restricted the access of anyone I know. I was actually introduced to many of the defining works of the world's major religions and sects as part of my formal Catholic education. I was taught this by incredibly intelligent and well educated professors. When we have the truth on our side we do not have to fear lies.
I was thinking of Jesus in his sandals and his simple lifestyle when I posted it. The Vatican is the exact opposite - nothing that resembles Jesus at all; along with the fact Jesus spoke Truth/His Word only - doing the will of His Father, which is The Word.
He didn’t sit in a throne like chair adorned with glittery robes and fancy headgear as everyone bows to Him before presenting Him with a book/scroll. What a sham the Vatican/the RCC is as they lift up man along with man made teachings.
Mary is who she is because Jesus is who He is.
Absolutely accurate. Were it not for Jesus, we would not be discussing any of this and were it not that Jesus, God became man in the womb of Mary, she would not be exalted as she is today. And she was not appointed but rather chosen and given the graces needed to bear God within her womb. And she was chosen for her faithfulness to God and to doing His will.
The Catholic church does not see Mary as a substitute or as being on par with Jesus. He is the author of life, the creator of all that is seen and unseen. She is a creation of Him, not the other way around and all Catholics understand that.
It is He who is our salvation but it is through her which that salvation came. And for the record, Jesus’ blood was her blood and she suffered for our sins in that she watched as her son was beaten and bloodied and crucified. But, no Catholic believes that she died for remission of sins.
There are many who believe that Mary did not understand who Jesus was and that is just nonsense. She knew and she followed Him all the way until His death and shared in the joy of His resurrection.
Jesus and Mary cannot be separated. To have one, we must have the other. But, make no mistake, Catholics are fully aware that Jesus is preeminent, that Jesus is God and that Jesus is our salvation.
Must be why William Tyndale (1st translator of an English Bible) was burned at the stake, eh? Or why all of Luther's works (and Hus'es, 100 years before, and Wycliffe, 200 years before...) were ceremonially burned in the 16th Century, and everyone arrested who had copies of them in Catholic controlled areas.
Rome has for (many) centuries--demonstrably, provably, historically-recorded--limited access a LOT of literature, particularly the Bible (one reason its very hard to find a biblically literate Roman Catholic, even today) for those under her control, and only in the last couple centuries has it become tolerant.
hmmmm....
It had to become more tolerant to avoid hemmorhaging members as they saw the freedom that Protestants enjoyed.
The RCC couldn't keep its members from socially mixing with Protestants and seeing the results that freedom in Christ gave them, like this country.....
The increase of tolerance of the Catholic church parallels the level of Protestantism of the country in which it is. The more Protestant the country, the more tolerant the Catholic church is, IN THAT PARTICULAR COUNTRY.
You then are a member of the Catholic clergy???
Hmmmmmmmmmm
You should get a good lawyer and get your money back from the RTS because either they taught you a lot of falsehoods or you didn't pay attention and the passed you anyway.
The Tyndale Bible was published in 1526 and was not the first English Bible. The Wycliff (English) Bible was published in 1380. The Coverdale Bible, Matthew's Bible, The Great Bible, the Taverner's Bible, the Geneva Bible and the Bishop's Bible, all in English, were published and widely used contemporary with the Tyndale Bible. Further, there were numerous partial Bibles published in English going back to the 10th century.
Tyndaye was first tried for heresy in 1522, three years before his translation of the New Testament was printed. Even Henry VIII, no friend of the Catholic Church, declared in 1531 that "the translation of the Scripture corrupted by William Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out of the hands of the people." in 1543, after his break with Rome, Henry again decreed that "all manner of books of the Old and New Testament in English, being of the crafty, false, and untrue translation of Tyndale . . . shall be clearly and utterly abolished, extinguished, and forbidden to be kept or used in this realm."
In the end it was the secular authorities of the Holy Roman Empire, not the Church that tried and executed Tyndale, not for the language his bible was printed in, but for the heretical ideas it contained that posed a threat to their claim of Divine Rule.
Would you care to compare the treatment of various ideological views by the Catholic Church to the oppressive conditions in Geneva or in Cromwell's England?
No, but many of my professors were. Formal Catholic education is not restricted to the clergy.
That is just ridiculous. This is nowhere near the 16th century, in fact, it's 500 years later. Access to clean water and safe food was limited then, not to mention books, translations, bibles, etc. No one living then is alive today, and if anyone is biblically ignorant today, it isn't because "Rome" said "don't read the Bible."
My guess is the names of the "religious" leaders screaming for Jesus to let them stone the prostitute that they had had sex with themselves. Sure explains why they kinda went all quiet and skulked away doesn't it? ;o)
Maybe another aspect of holding to the Scriptures as the rule of your faith instead of your church (Sola Scriptura vs Sola Ecclesia) is the willingness of Sola Scriptura adherents to find other churches to attend if their church falls into error and can't be reformed. I don't know the statistics, so I'm just guessing, but it seems to me a much larger % of those that leave the Sola Ecclesia churches just stop going to church.
And ultimately, those who leave the Sola Ecclesia churches who have left because of unresolvable issues are often still very interested in a relationship with God and end up in the Sola Scriptura churches.
I’ve seen plenty of Protestant and Evangelical churches filled with formerly practicing Catholics. They make some of the most committed Christians.
I’ve seen plenty of Protestant and Evangelical churches filled with formerly practicing Catholics. They make some of the most committed Christians.
Yes, my congregation of nearly 400 is 90% former Roman Catholic.
Very interesting this use of the ECFs to try to support your version of “Sola Scriptura”. I imagine that within a very short time we can expect you to also use them in defense of the Eucharist, the Church hierarchy, Mary, Mother of God and so on........
It certainly has been done before, like in this article, but you dont't believe them, saying they were just speaking as private theologans.
You will only be convinced by the Word of God.
Rom 10:16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Even if someone rises from the dead to tell you the truth you will not listen.
Luke 16:30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.
I found this interesting and worth a read pretaining to Scripture.
“How then does one communicate to a peoples mindset which openly rejects ultimate authority and ridicules the sacred? The answer is not simple, but we rob ourselves if we think it is therefore impossible.
Let us be absolutely certain that every generation at some time has in its own way resisted the truth that God has proclaimed...... In Matthew 11, Jesus compared his own generation to children in a market place crying out,.... “We played the flute for you but you did not dance. We sang a dirge but you did not mourn.”
The point of the illustration as expounded by Jesus is a staggering exposure of the human will. That generation wanted John the Baptist to “dance” because they considered his message — the demands of the law —too somber. .........On the other hand, when Jesus came with the message of grace and freedom they wanted Him to mourn because it was too merciful.................Any message that threatens our autonomy is automatically rejected no matter what it is.
For that very reason, centuries after Jesus,.... we have become the impoverished inheritors of a culture that understands neither law nor grace,.... where absolutes are debunked as the gasp of an antiquated thought pattern,.... and forgiveness is branded a beggar’s refuge.
It is not at all surprising that in Toynbee’s study of history we are the first of 21 civilizations to attempt “civility” without a moral point of reference. To compound this further, we have come to these conclusions through a process that only causes us to sink deeper into the abyss of nihilism, where life has lost all meaning. That process is where we now turn our attention.
In the biblical narrative, when the tower of Babel was being built, we are told that God sent a confusion of languages to stem the tide toward humanity’s self-deification. The implication was that the uniformity of language would inexorably lead to a homogenization of tastes, and a celebration of evil. The human heart, being what it is, moves in a herd instinct, irresistibly drawn to the intrigue and allurements of perversions. The confusion of language was one fence that God put up to limit communication and prevent a moral landslide.
But that was millennia ago. Now, for the first time the whole world speaks the same language. Yet it is not propositional; rather, it is pictorial, literally focused on “flesh and blood.” As a result, the whole process militates against reason because images have become the sum and substance of truth, and the written word is no longer user-friendly. For all practical purposes, truth has been relegated to technology, images have become the sum and substance of truth, and the written word is no longer user-friendly. For all practical purposes, truth has been relegated to technology, beauty has been subjugated to the beholder, and goodness is mocked night after night as millions are idiotized before a box. We have been left as expendable entities in a disposable world, and our experiences have become fragmented quantities in a disjointed world. Yet, the fearful symmetry remains, for at such a time as this we are called to proclaim, “It is written. . . .” Is the written Word the best method for an infinite God to have chosen to reveal Himself? Yes! Indeed, an emphatic yes!
As cultural fads ebb and flow, the inescapable truth emerges that century after century the power of the written Word has surpassed, and will continue to surpass, the exhilarations of momentary experience, which are conceived and die in an instant. We tenderly set a halo on the forehead of feeling or miracle, but in times of greatest loss it is the written Word that carries us through, not feeling.
The Apostle Peter himself in his epistle reminds us of this very truth. We must remember that this is the same Peter who experienced the ecstasy of the transfiguration — a sight that caused him to plead that he and those with him be permitted to permanently bask in its afterglow. It is Peter who, contrasting the temporariness of that experience with the eternal and unfading brilliance of the Word, says, “We now have the more sure word of prophecy.” Inscripturation has a present and eternal point of reference, transcending mere flashes of feeling or of the miraculous.
Over the span of life, the Word can be tested time and time again and its truths will stand tall as our culture’s fascination with the subjective proves itself to be hollow and false. By contrast, the biblical documents have withstood the most scrutinizing analysis ever imposed upon any manuscript and have emerged with compelling authenticity and authority. No other ancient literature demonstrates such a high degree of accuracy. Yes, repeatedly the Bible rises up to outlive its pallbearers.
Not only does the Word come persuasively inscribed on paper, but the effectual power of the Word is evidenced when that inscription proclaimed through the Spirit brings life changing conviction with it. That transformation is what regeneration is all about, when the letter of the Word is written on the heart of the hearer. But lest we slip into a fatalistic mode where the power is all in the letter, let us not ignore the imaginative power of anecdotes and pictorial and dramatic portrayals, used by Christ Himself to drive home the truth. And last, but not the least, let us never forget the very Incarnation itself, where the Word became flesh.
The Scriptures, the touch, the presence, and the love of Christ lived out coalesce the vital components of Word and deed, which become the sword of the Spirit to break down the armored resistance of a culture at war with His truth. For ultimately, all pursuits apart from God lead to alienation and loneliness that only the touch of Christ can resolve. The Christian, therefore, stands in the position to proclaim and live the truth that reaches the mind, stirs the heart and purifies the imagination. The regenerative power of the Word is what makes it indispensable to every culture in every century.
The story is told of a young man defending his doctoral dissertation before a panel of academicians. When reprimanded for the number of allusions he had made to hearsay evidence, and challenged on the weakness of such a defense, he facetiously said, “Just because something is written does not make it any more certain, does it?” The chairperson had a brilliant comeback. “All right then, I just want you to know that we will be granting you the degree, but it will not be in writing. You can just take our word for it.” The candidate quickly complied with the documentary demand.
Dr. Ravi Zacharias...from Let My People Think.
Maybe another aspect of holding to the Scriptures as the rule of your faith instead of your church (Sola Scriptura vs Sola Ecclesia) is the willingness of Sola Scriptura adherents to find other churches to attend if their church falls into error and can't be reformed. I don't know the statistics, so I'm just guessing, but it seems to me a much larger % of those that leave the Sola Ecclesia churches just stop going to church.
That kinda reminds me of what Cyril of Jerusalem said about sola scriptura.
"This seal have thou ever on thy mind; which now by way of summary has been touched on in its heads, and if the Lord grant, shall hereafter be set forth according to our power, with Scripture-proofs. For concerning the divine and sacred Mysteries of the Faith, we ought not to deliver even the most casual remark without the Holy Scriptures: nor be drawn aside by mere probabilities and the artifices of argument. Do not then believe me because I tell thee these things, unless thou receive from the Holy Scriptures the proof of what is set forth: for this salvation, which is of our faith, is not by ingenious reasonings, but by proof from the Holy Scriptures (A Library of the Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church (Oxford: Parker, 1845), The Catechetical Lectures of S. Cyril 4.17).
Ravi Zacharias is the BEST.
I’ve had the privilege of hearing him in person several times and it’s always been a challenging time. I ALWAYS learn something new from him.
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