A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura

Catholic Fidelity.Com ^ | Dave Armstrong

[Cronos]

Bluntly, The Church does NOT teach that Salvation is by Faith and Works, that is an incorrect statement.

Salvation as taught by the Church comes from Christ's sacrifice.

God's Grace saves us, we cannot save ourselves. THAT is Church teaching.

[bkaycee]

God's Grace saves us, we cannot save ourselves. THAT is Church teaching.

What do you mean by Grace? Please define it?

[Cronos]

Bluntly, The Church does NOT teach that Salvation is by Faith and Works, that is an incorrect statement.

Salvation as taught by the Church comes from Christ's sacrifice.

God's Grace saves us, we cannot save ourselves. THAT is Church teaching.

456 For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man

Then here is the Redemptoris Missal by Pope John Pail II in 1990 4. In my first encyclical, in which I set forth the program of my Pontificate, I said that "the Church's fundamental function in every age, and particularly in ours, is to direct man's gaze, to point the awareness and experience of the whole of humanity toward the mystery of Christ."4

The Church's universal mission is born of faith in Jesus Christ, as is stated in our Trinitarian profession of faith: "I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father.... For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man."5 The redemption event brings salvation to all, "for each one is included in the mystery of the redemption and with each one Christ has united himself forever through this mystery."6 It is only in faith that the Church's mission can be understood and only in faith that it finds its basis.

5. If we go back to the beginnings of the Church, we find a clear affirmation that Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God. In reply to the Jewish religious authorities who question the apostles about the healing of the lame man, Peter says: "By the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well.... And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:10, 12). This statement, which was made to the Sanhedrin, has a universal value, since for all people-Jews and Gentiles alike - salvation can only come from Jesus Christ.

[Cronos]

I hope I have made it quite clear that from The Church point of view, Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross was super-sufficient for our salvation. Salvation comes from Christ’s sacrifice. We cannot save ourselves — our works cannot provide us salvation, not one bit, not a little bit — and that is Church teaching.

[Cronos]

I made an error earlier. Correcting it here

In the Old Testament, "son of God" is a title given to the angels, the Chosen People, the children of Israel, and their kings (Ex 4:22 "And thou shalt say to him: Thus saith the Lord: Israel is my son, my firstborn.", Hoss 11:1 “When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. ", 2 SAm 7:14 "I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands. "Ps 82:6 "I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High."

This signifies an adoptive sonship that establishes a relationship of particular intimacy between God and his creature. When the promised Messiah-King is called "son of God", it does not necessarily imply that he was more than human, according to the literal meaning of these texts. Those who called Jesus "son of God", as the Messiah of Israel, perhaps meant nothing more than this.

Such is not the case for Simon Peter when he confesses Jesus as "the Christ, the Son of the living God", for Jesus responds solemnly: "Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven."

Similarly Paul will write, regarding his conversion on the road to Damascus, "When he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles..."

"And in the synagogues immediately [Paul] proclaimed Jesus, saying, 'He is the Son of God.'" From the beginning this acknowledgment of Christ's divine sonship will be the center of the apostolic faith, first professed by Peter as the Church's foundation.

Well before this, Jesus referred to himself as "the Son" who knows the Father, as distinct from the "servants" God had earlier sent to his people; he is superior even to the angels (Mt 11:27 "“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. ", Mt 21:34-38, 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father" .

He distinguished his sonship from that of his disciples by never saying "our Father", except to command them: "You, then, pray like this: 'Our Father'", and he emphasized this distinction, saying "my Father and your Father". (Mt 5:48;"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.", Mt 6:8-9 "Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.", 7:21 "“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.", Lk 11:13 "If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Jn 20:17 "Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus calls himself the "only Son of God", and by this title affirms his eternal pre-existence (Jn 3:16 ""For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ", 10"36 "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?").

Jn 3:18. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son

After his Resurrection, Jesus' divine sonship becomes manifest in the power of his glorified humanity. He was "designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his Resurrection from the dead". The apostles can confess: "We have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the ineffable Hebrew name YHWH, by which God revealed himself to Moses is rendered as Kyrios, "Lord". From then on, "Lord"becomes the more usual name by which to indicate the divinity of Israel's God. The New Testament uses this full sense of the title "Lord" both for the Father and - what is new - for Jesus, who is thereby recognized as God Himself.

Jesus ascribes this title to himself in a veiled way when he disputes with the Pharisees about the meaning of Psalm 110, but also in an explicit way when he addresses his apostles.

Very often in the Gospels people address Jesus as "Lord". This title testifies to the respect and trust of those who approach him for help and healing

In the encounter with the risen Jesus, this title becomes adoration: "My Lord and my God!" It thus takes on a connotation of love and affection that remains proper to the Christian tradition: "It is the Lord!"

[Cronos]

so repeating again Salvation as taught by the Church comes from Christ's sacrifice. . The Church does NOT teach that Salvation is by Faith and Works, that is an incorrect statement.

God's Grace saves us, we cannot save ourselves. THAT is Church teaching.

Grace is not just God's loving kindness, favor or mercy, but God’s divine life itself, which enables the work of Christ to flow through us. Through Adam, we have been dis-graced and separated from God, and in Christ, we are restored to grace and reconciled to God. Through grace people can become new creations, "partakers of the divine nature."[2 Pet. 1:4]

the Church's fundamental function in every age, and particularly in ours, is to direct man's gaze, to point the awareness and experience of the whole of humanity toward the mystery of Christ. Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God

[BenKenobi]

Saying that Moslems and Jews agree with him here is entirely factual. That is all I meant.

[Cronos]

The Catholic Church has always allowed married priests. Let me repeat that. The Catholic Church has ALWAYS allowed married priests. However, it has at times restricted the priesthood to unmarried celibate men, and this is the case for the general Roman Rite. The Roman Rite priesthood was restricted to celibate men in 1123 AD, but this only pertained to the Roman Rite. The Eastern Rites were excluded from this, and in fact, married men are continually ordained in Eastern Catholic churches to this very day. In recent times, Rome has also made an exception for married Protestant clergy who wish to convert and be ordained priests, as well as those of the Anglican tradition. Clerical celibacy is not a Church doctrine. It is merely a discipline of the Church, which Rome can amend or rescind at any time. For now, Rome has seen fit to keep celibacy in the general Roman Rite, however Rome reserves the right to make exceptions, and the Anglican ordinariate is one such exception.

rried men can become priests within the Anglican ordinariates, and it has been made clear that this provision is perpetual. When asked "how long" the Anglican Catholics will be permitted to retain married priests, one Vatican CDF official responded "we'll let you know in a couple hundred years."

[Cronos]

yes :)

However, Moslems make their own innovations.

[bkaycee]

I hope I have made it quite clear that from The Church point of view, Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross was super-sufficient for our salvation. Salvation comes from Christ’s sacrifice. We cannot save ourselves — our works cannot provide us salvation, not one bit, not a little bit — and that is Church teaching.

You appear to believe that works spured by grace, done for the attainment of eternal life is NOT the merit of the believer?

It appears that Roman unity is somewhat divided on wether it is Faith and Grace or Faith and Works. Many Roman Catholics believe its Faith and Works. How does the often repeated "co-operation" figure into the mix?

CANON 20.-If any one saith, that the man who is justified and how perfect soever, is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if indeed the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments ; let him be anathema.

Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

CANON 32.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Bob,
My apologies for not responding sooner. Tied up on other threads and missed your response:

“As Christians, we should try to lead a life as much like Jesus as we can. If he is God, that would be impossible unless we were a god as well.”

... I disagree. As Christians, we are to allow Him to let His life flow through us, producing fruit. We do not have to also be God to do so. His life equals fruit. Apple trees do not have to strain to produce fruit.

“I believe He is a pre sin nature man empowered by the Spirit of God as He claims all through His earthly ministry. If that is the case, it would be possible for a believer born again into God’s family to allowed that same Spirit to guide their life as did the Christians all thru Acts.”

... I believe that is a heresy.

“I contend it was soon after the enemy took all the power from the Church by convincing them to make Jesus God.”

... I disagree.

Still, thanks for your civility and authenticity. 30 years ago, I had studied less, had fewer convictions and had “issues” God had to deal with over time. He is maturing us. Our understanding develops into conformity with Him, if we are truly His. Even the Apostles didn’t understand everything - especially at first.

I wish you every blessing.

[Jvette]

I cannot explain it further.

A Catholic is not saved by any means other than the Grace of God, in the name of Jesus, His Son who lived, died and rose for our sins to be forgiven thus opening the gates of heaven.

It has been told to you and others over and over yet the refrain remains the same.

I give up:(

[Jvette]

The Book of Revelations does not say that it contains all the rest of what Jesus promised to tell the Apostles through the Holy Spirit.

You will note that I said those doctrines came to fruition, meaning that because so many heresies arose, even from the very beginning, it became necessary for the Church to formally declare them to be so.

Had it all been instantly understood, those heresies would never have arose.

The Trinity.
Jesus as fully God and fully human.
Jesus’ death upon the cross and bodily resurrected.
Baptism for the forgiveness of sins, including Original Sin
The Real Presence in the Eucharist.

Just to name a few. All doctrines disputed and denied which were declared as truth by the Church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

To accept these things as proof, one must accept that Jesus founded one Church, that He leads that Church through the Holy Spirit and that that Church is Catholic.

[boatbums]

Wrong again. It was in verse 58 when He told them He existed before Abraham. That is what got their panties in a wad. Jesus needed a way to have Himself executed while still being without sin. This was the way He chose or God chose for Him. He could make that truthful claim and their hearts were to hard to understand it.

On the contrary, the collective "panties" of the religious leaders had been wadded against Jesus from the very minute he stepped into their world. They prided themselves on their lineage, saying they were true children of Abraham. Jesus said in verse 51 that if anyone kept his sayings, believed his words, that man would not see death. They then accused him of being possessed of the devil saying, "Abraham and all the prophets are dead so how can you say no man will taste death?". They concluded that Jesus was saying he was greater than Abraham. Jesus then told them that Abraham rejoiced to see him come and he saw it and was glad. "You're not even 50 years old so how can you say you saw Abraham?", they shouted back. That is what led up to them then taking up stones because Jesus' next answer was, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am.". Just what do you think he meant if not that he was God?

Your next sentence is a real doozy. Jesus needed a way to have Himself executed while still being without sin. So are you implying that Jesus was just intentionally saying things to get them mad enough at him to kill him? How do you explain the OT Messianic prophecies that say this was going to happen? That say EXACTLY how he would be slain - not stoned - but crucified? You say "while he was still without sin" like at any moment he would get ticked off enough and blow it?

You have some strange theories about Christ and you could not have gotten them from a serious study of Scripture. It sounds curiously like Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses. Care to make your source known?

[boatbums]

Christians are told to judge things by their fruits. I would say this is a fruit the world would be a lot better off without. Do you agree?

What, that the Muslims have no idea of what they speak? Yes. The "fruit" that comes from non-believer's misunderstanding of Christian doctrine is their own fruit, not the Christians'.

[boatbums]

they provide a lot of quotes from scripture and based on their self-study of scripture (sola scriptura), they have arrived at their conclusions that deny the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. If one agrees to sola scriptura, then their point of view is a valid POV.

I sincerely hope that you understand that this is not what sola scriptura means and you are just trying to make some kind of point. In an earlier post you mentioned that no doctrine of the Christian faith can be true unless it is found within Holy Scripture, am I correct? This IS what the term really means, so to say anyone can just pull a verse here or there and make up a doctrine all on their own is disingenuous to call it the same as sola scriptura, because it is not.

[Zuriel]

OK, I’m back for a bit. I have limited pc time during the work days.

**John 5:19 —> this indicates unity of purpose.**

I’ll give ya this: It’s not disunity. lol
Jesus Christ was continually doing his Father’s will, as the passages I’ve pointed out make quite clear, as does Heb. 10:7-9, “..I am come to do thy will, O God..”.

**John 5:26 —> God does not have “life” in the human sense, so “as the Father hath life in Himself, so hath he GIVEN to the SON” must indicate something different than the life that God gave Adam.**

That’s for sure. God the Father didn’t live in Adam, but he lives in the body of Jesus Christ, as the scriptures make quite clear.

**John 5:27 -> God gives it to Christ who is God, the One God. Yes, it’s confusing I agree.**

Cunfusing; yes I agree.

**John 14:28 does NOT show dual nature — you can say it shows subordination, but not duality.**

That verse, taken by itself, could be ‘interpreted’ that way, but when harmonized with all the others does show the Father being greater than the Son, in every divine way.

Now, rather than continue on the theme of all the divine powerful attributes flowing from the Father to the Son, who apparently needed them “to do thy will, O God”, I ask this:

What divine powerful attribute did the Son give to the Father?

**created by him and in him — now this is not possible as Jesus was born just 33 years before.**
and
**Note — if you take the point that the Father is in Jesus, how can Jesus too be in the Father unless both are One? Also, the quote “the words” differs from “in the Beginning was The Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God”**

I believe the Son existed ‘in the beginning’ in magnificent plan only.

Red letter bibles show ‘the words of Christ’ in red, but don’t differentiate when he speaks as a man, or when he speaks as the Almighty God. For example, as mortal man: “ I thirst”, “I of mine own self do nothing..”, and think on this one a moment, “But of that day and hour knoweth....my Father only” (the ‘2nd and 3rd persons’ don’t know??); but as God the Father: “ I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven”.

**In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!”**

That’s another example of taking one verse and ‘interpreting’ it, without harmonizing it with others. Thomas, along with the other disciples, were enlightened 6 chapters earlier; thoroughly taught that the Father was in him and he in the Father, and that they were one.

**I am the First and the Last’**

The Father and the Son are fused. Also, after the resurrection, there are no mortal man comments (”take this cup from me”, a cry indicating the limits of the flesh). Christ’s will of the flesh died and did not ‘resurrect’.

**Also, about the Holy Spirit we have John 14:26:**

Love that verse, and how it says “..the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in MY NAME..”.

We also have 15:26, “..the Comforter..which PROCEEDETH FROM the Father..”.

Which leads to another question: If the Holy Ghost is a ‘separate and distinct person of God’, what divine powerful attribute can it give to the Father that the Father doesn’t already have?

**So, the short-winded answer to your question is the we DO have the phrase as in “go and baptise the nations in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy SPirit” — God the Father, God the SOn and GOd the Holy SPirit — a triune God.

Where I work there is a founder, president, and supervisor; and they’re all the same guy, who has quite a variety of skills. They’re titles, not names (’Son’ a NAME??).

My wife demands I get off here and pay attention to her.
So goodnight and God bless.

[Zuriel]

Thanks for your comments, goat granny (I trying to imagine how you came up with that name).

**But I wondered of a different reason why the father had to leave him...With the father’s spirit in him, he could not die and would have hung there forever.**

Yes, and I’ve mentioned that on this forum in distant past, when discussing this Godgead issue.

**Don’t know if this is clear or not, somethings are hard to put in words..**

I herd dat I did!

God bless

[Cronos]

you incorrectly stated that we believe (incorrectly stated by you) that salvation is from faith and works. That is incorrect. Church teaching is clear. Salvation comes from Christ’s sacrifice. We cannot save ourselves — our works cannot provide us salvation, not one bit, not a little bit — and that is Church teaching.

Not ONE Catholic believes that Faith and works gives us salvation.

Canon 20 --> does not talk about Salvation. Salvation is from Christ's sacrifice

Canon 24 --> Does not talk about Salvation either

Canon 32 --> no talk about Salvation here either -- Salvation is from Christ's sacrifice.

No where in ANY of the canons you quoted do we read that salvation is by any means other than Christ's sacrifice. Increasing of grace, co-operation with Christ in His plan of salvation are no different than sitting in a bus while the bus-driver drives us to our destination --> Let me repeat again -- The Church teaches Salvation is from Christ alone
If we go back to the beginnings of the Church, we find a clear affirmation that Christ is the one Savior of all, the only one able to reveal God and lead to God
I hope that's clear enough to dispel any doubts that the Church teachs that Christ's sacrifice is what won us Salvation.

[Cronos]

Jvette -- Don't give up

bkaycee, as Jvette said

A Catholic is not saved by any means other than the Grace of God, in the name of Jesus, His Son who lived, died and rose for our sins to be forgiven thus opening the gates of heaven.

It has been told to you and others over and over yet the refrain remains the same.<