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To: Godzilla; SZonian
The true church is Christianity - people, not a building.

Too vague. By this definition anything is Christianity. While it certainly isn't a building, it isn't people either.

People are Christians. They practice Christianity, but Christianity is a belief system and a way of life. To make Christianity "true" it must be headed by Jesus Christ himself or else it cannot bear his name and be true.

Christianity has Jesus' promise that it would remain intact throughout history and that though some would LEAVE it, it would remain intact.

Overreach on this one. He didn't promise it would remain intact throughout history. That's eisegsis.

The Christian expectation is apostasy at some point and restoration. That's the story of the Bible.

In Noah's day you had universal apostasy. Josaiah as experienced universal apostasy among his people. Jesus encountered it as well. By dictionary definition apostasy is An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion or departure from one's faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity.

These definitions are important when trying to search out the truth. The LDS definition of apostasy is slightly different. The LDS definition of Apostasy is:

Latter-day Saints believe that apostasy occurs whenever an individual or community rejects the revelations and ordinances of God, changes the gospel of Jesus Christ, or rebels against the commandments of God, thereby losing the blessings of the Holy Ghost and of divine authority.

So you have four conditions that satisfy apostasy for the LDS:

1. Rejection of revelations of God

2. Rejection of the ordinances of God

3. Changes to the gospel of Jesus Christ

4. Rebellion against the commandments of God

#4 most certainly is always happening, but is it complete? Few Christians observe the Sabbath Day who would otherwise strictly adhere to the other Ten Commandments. The Trinity is another example of changes to the gospel of Jesus Christ

Let me continue my research and reading. I haven't finished reading History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints: History of Joseph Smith the Prophet By Joseph Smith, B. H. Roberts.

I hadn't known this book was available until Szonian and you put me on to it and I was thrilled to find it online. I like going to the source and not just getting the opinions of men. Interpretations get filtered and all that.

I'm not going to read the whole thing for now, but just the chapter starting on page XL called Announcement of the Universal Apostasy

When I'm done I'll post what I've found or have you read it already?

524 posted on 01/14/2011 6:20:34 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; SZonian
Too vague. By this definition anything is Christianity. While it certainly isn't a building, it isn't people either.

Wrong again - church is the 'ekklesia' - the called out ones, the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth and the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven. Perhaps your are not well read enough.

People are Christians. They practice Christianity, but Christianity is a belief system and a way of life.

Nope, "people" are not necessarily "christian" for practicing a "belief system" any more than sleeping in a garage makes you a car 10. To be a follower of Christ is not a 'belief system'. Belief systems are products of men.

To make Christianity "true" it must be headed by Jesus Christ himself or else it cannot bear his name and be true.

Nope again - to be true the Person, nature and works of Christ (ie the definition of WHO Jesus is) must be true. Under your definition there would be no separation between JW, Unitarians, Moonies, etc. Additionally, LOTS of organizations 'bear' the name of Jesus - doesn't make them true either.

Overreach on this one. He didn't promise it would remain intact throughout history. That's eisegsis.

Just another ignorant statement - THAT is EISEGESIS 10 and an epic fail on your part. There is absolutely NOTHING in Jesus' promise to Peter that would indicate otherwise - except morg theology - thus eisegesis on your part.

In Noah's day you had universal apostasy.

Not ABSOLUTE universal though because Noah and his family were found righteous before Lord.

Josaiah as experienced universal apostasy among his people.

Josaiah is not found in the OT - If you are referring to Josiah, his reign is noteworthy for the great revivals back to the worship of Jehovah which he led.

Jesus encountered it as well.

Biblical reference please - I don't accept the bom references.

An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion or departure from one's faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity.

Webster's dictionary is a poor source for theology 10. However, if we apply the same the key is the word TOTAL comprising the whole number or amount , which leaves NO room for any to slip by.

The LDS definition of Apostasy

Please note that the contents of the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, a joint product of Brigham Young University and Macmillan Publishing Company, do not necessarily represent the official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

#4 most certainly is always happening, but is it complete? Few Christians observe the Sabbath Day who would otherwise strictly adhere to the other Ten Commandments.

mormon do not observe the sabbath either as defined within the Bible.

The Trinity is another example of changes to the gospel of Jesus Christ

Mormon polytheism is another example of changes to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

529 posted on 01/15/2011 5:36:01 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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