[BenKenobi]

So lets review.

“Because I believe x to be y, when he says x is really z, because I believe x to be y means that he’s incorrect.

That’s circular logic.

I’m not arguing that he’s inspired here and that all his words are automatically correct. I am saying that he is far closer to the source material than you.

I think it’s rather arrogant to go and say, “he is obviously wrong, because I believe my interpretation of an english bible, which has been translated from a translation of a translation of a translation, of his bible, is obviously more correct.”

[RobRoy]

>>“Because I believe x to be y, when he says x is really z, because I believe x to be y means that he’s incorrect. That’s circular logic.<< I agree. And that is why that is not my position. You make two mistakes. First, you over-rate what he knows and has studied, while you under-rate my own efforts. >>I am saying that he is far closer to the source material than you.<< In what way. Chronologically? Not relevant. He is still centuries removed. I do not change my opinion on something simple because someone who has studied it at an earlier time disagrees with me. Heck, the early church excommunicated people for saying the earth is not the center of the universe, even though there is nowhere in the bible where it says it is. >>I think it’s rather arrogant to go and say, “he is obviously wrong, because I believe my interpretation of an english bible, which has been translated from a translation of a translation of a translation, of his bible, is obviously more correct.”<< You are partially correct. But it is not arrogant to say that you disagree with someone, regardless of their education level. I have access to, and have used the hebrew and greek lexicons and strongs numbering can be a huge help. IOW, my source is not the "english" bible. It is when I want to read it, but if I want to STUDY it, it goes much deeper than that. Here is an example: In the KJV, John 14:2 sez, "In my Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I go and prepare a place for you." The word "mansions" comes from the Greek word "μονή" and has a strongs number of G3438 and is translated: 1) a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode 2) to make an (one's) abode 3) metaph. of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believers Interestingly, the only other place it shows up is in John 14:23 and there it is translated "abode". The only version that translates it in the former verse to be "mansion" is the KJV. The others properly call it things like "room". Translating the word to mean mansion is like translating the word car to mean Bugatti Veyron. It is a wild stretch of the word to appeal to people's vanity. BTW, the root word is "μένω" (G3306) and it means: 1) to remain, abide --a) in reference to place ----1) to sojourn, tarry ----2) not to depart ------a) to continue to be present ------b) to be held, kept, continually --b) in reference to time ----1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure ------a) of persons, to survive, live --c) in reference to state or condition ----1) to remain as one, not to become another or different 2) to wait for, await one And I believe I already mentioned that the early church, close as they were to the events of Christ's life, excommunicated people for saying the earth was not the center of the universe. They held their incorrect inferences over others as "fact" when there is NO evidence in the bible to support that inference. And regarding the Mary thing, it is as though they forget that every single character in the bible, even Jesus, was real flesh and blood, with real wants, needs and desires. That is just one reason that Jesus literal perfection is so amazing. Mary? Fuggetaboutit.