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To: D-fendr
On your question about what we believe concerning whether our Lord Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven...

Here is the Catholic Catechism:

By Paul who had the authority of the Church.

It was actually by two other people in the church:

But you both only have your own authority.

This would be true if you took a low view of the scriptures. However, if you view the scriptures as the ultimate authority, then we both have the same authority. If John MacArthur could show clearly to me out of the scriptures a particular view, then I have to give in to that view not because of MacArthur but because that is what the scriptures tells us.

This btw is a pet peeve of mine. When scripture clearly states something, it is unfathomable in my mind for Christians just to ignore it or say it's a mystery. I would hope people would want to reconcile the passages or try to understand.

But not by themselves, each becoming their own authority and deriving their own doctrine

The authority is the scriptures. I am reminded of the case in Samuel where Israel begged God for a king. After God told them of all the problems they will have with a king, they still wanted one. God granted them a king saying they had rejected Him as their king.

The Christian church is no different. Men still want a king other than Christ.

291 posted on 12/22/2010 1:31:21 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
If John MacArthur could show clearly to me out of the scriptures a particular view, then I have to give in to that view not because of MacArthur but because that is what the scriptures tells us.

You have been clearly shown the Holy Eucharist in scriptures but you disagree. Scripture as we see here has no authority - it's not saying you're right and I'm wrong. It's not on the witness stand or in the judge's box saying MacArthur is wrong and you are right.

Scripture is scripture - what it means in regards to doctrine requires an authority outside scripture. We disagree on what scripture means, now what? Convince each other? Appeal to the authority of scripture? I'm convinced you missed the scripture's meaning. Now what? Which meaning does the Christian Church hold? You decide for you and I decide for me? How is that a church?

When scripture clearly states something, it is unfathomable in my mind for Christians just to ignore it or say it's a mystery. I would hope people would want to reconcile the passages or try to understand.

Then you understand how I'm completely perplexed when you can't see the Church, One Holy and Apostolic clearly throughout the scripture. Again - Scripture is not capable of saying I'm right and you're wrong. Sola scriptura results in sola sola.

The Christian church is no different. Men still want a king other than Christ.

Christ is Head of His Church. The alternative is people like MacArthur here. I initially responded to this:

"MacArthur-If you do not address error, if you do not address strange doctrine, damning heresy.."

Who died and made him king?

:)

292 posted on 12/22/2010 1:55:29 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: HarleyD

Oh, and thanks very much for your reply..


293 posted on 12/22/2010 1:56:03 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: HarleyD

As a side note, I should add that Priscilla and Aquila traveled with Paul before they corrected Apollos, according to Paul’s teaching, and that Paul’s correction of the Church in Corinth was key to Apollos becoming its bishop. Following Acts 18, we find Paul in Ephesus, teaching there and on and on. It’s accurate Paul, or others according to Paul, is correcting everyone in his travels and letters. It’s clear there was an authority in the Church.


294 posted on 12/22/2010 2:56:10 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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