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To: maryz
You might start by asking a Catholic

I can say now why would I ask a catholic? But I did do just that in the beginning, finding there answers were anything but adequate...most don't know why. Those who do varied so in the history and or reasoning's about it that it was a fruitless cause....so I went to the Vatican...it is there the RC teachings are clearly shown...and equally as much writings of the Popes... for they do set the tempo of what is to be believed indirectly and directly. The dogma's there and all anyone might need to know what catholics are suppose to believe.

I believe there are various reasons catholics hold to Mary and various degrees of worship of her. But your Popes do set the pace and example...of which the members follow.

I would suppose to a catholic I am now part of the anti-mary crowd. For I do believe how she is portrayed in the catholic faith is indeed idolatry...and completely so.

In my Christian walk I have not spent a great deal of time looking at Mary when it comes to the Birth of our Savior. Rather on His coming and what that means to every individual. Equally as much His life and mission which followed. Yes, that God became a man is astounding and has often humbled me....that Mary was selected was an event which played out in the role of His birth...is pretty much enough for me...even after investigating further.

You see the old test. spoke all the way thru it that the Savior would be coming....it's about Him...very little mentioned of Mary...in fact her name wasn't mentioned..But his was. His birth was a fulfillment of all that was written...and that is cause for greatest of celebration over Mary's role...though she is certainly honored by God at that time...she was far far more humble than those who lay claim to her worship today...and would no doubt cringe for those who have exalted her above her son...and they have and they do.

159 posted on 12/19/2010 10:46:24 AM PST by caww
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To: caww; maryz
various degrees of worship of her.

I think this is at the root of much of the disagreement. I believe that for many Protestants there is only worship and.. nothing - on off. If one give honor to a religious figure, it's worship in this view. Giving a lot of honor is most certainly worsphip. I think a key to understanding is that for the Church we have the Mass, our worship. And it's clear it is for God alone, and it's clear who God is and the Saints we honor are not God. Without the Mass, how is this distinction in worship made clear? I think by not honoring or showing anything close to it to anyone or anything else - since with the Mass, the distinction of worship can only be made clear in other ways.

It's a difference of what is worship and what is an idol.

164 posted on 12/19/2010 11:10:14 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: caww
In my Christian walk I have not spent a great deal of time looking at Mary when it comes to the Birth of our Savior. Rather on His coming and what that means to every individual.

This strikes me as an example of what I meant by assigning a strictly functional value to Christ. What's not coming through is any adoration of Christ because of Who He is (He Who IS). If it's there, it's quite overshadowed by what He does -- for you, even if you politely add "every individual" -- though that at least sounds as if you're not a Calvinist (I have trouble keeping everyone straight).

I think you don't know what the worship of God is as we live and experience it. And you really won't get it from reading a digest of doctrinal teachings, any more than you can say you know a language because you've memorized a grammar book. You mention Catholics seeming to disagree with one another: Isn't that to be expected? We each have different backgrounds, educations, experiences, modes of expression. I think you'll find the same variety in an in-depth study of anything. You can keep going, or dismiss them as you might the blind men's account of the elephant.

And I think the biggest idol most people should worry about putting before God is the self. Of course, castigating other people's statues is as a good a distraction as any.

165 posted on 12/19/2010 11:11:51 AM PST by maryz
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To: caww

Excellent post.


198 posted on 12/19/2010 2:05:36 PM PST by Vegasrugrat
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