Posted on 12/17/2010 7:31:07 AM PST by marshmallow
Do you know what that is called, or if there are still copies to be read? Any recent translations? I ask because I’m curious.
Interesting that the Lord gave Mary's care, not to His own family members but to one of His diciples. Evidences as well that Mary needed the protection and care. If she was as powerful as is spoken of her now she is departed then I would assume she could have been powerful enough to take care of herself then. Obvious Jesus recognized clearly she had no power and put her in the care of one He trusted would do so.
With errors in who Mary is, you’ll often find errors in who Christ is. The two tend to go together - which is why the Council that decreed Mary as Theotokos was all about Christology. Recall that, even using the same scripture, the Trinity was argued for centuries.
It continues today. Those who have a problem with Mary often exhibit heresy in their view of the Trinity: Nestorianism, etc.
If you don’t understand Mary, you don’t understand the Incarnation, and without that theology concerning Christ and the Holy Trinity is very often flawed.
Which Church was it during the First Council of Nicaea (325), First Council of Constantinople (381), First Council of Ephesus (431), Council of Chalcedon (451)…, etc. ?
Mary......
I recently attended a funeral at a Roman Catholic house of worship and a couple of things, well really a lot of things, jumped out at me.
The oddest thing I witnessed occurred during the singing of the Ava Maria. A group of mourners placed flowers at the feet of a life sized statue of Mary. Pure idol worship, don’t care what the FRoman Catholics call it.
“Wherever the Roman Catholic Church got to in Europe, there were already Christians there when the Vaticanist missionaries arrived. The means was stated in my original post.”
History states clearly otherwise. The Romans in Britain considered themselves just that, Roman. As did the Romans in all the other places.
You are drawing a distinction where none exists, between the missionaries of the Church and between the Catholic church.
“Roman Catholic Church definitely is not, never was, and never shall be, although it misrepresents itself to be something akin to the kingdom of heaven-—so it has a king (pope) and its own city state, and has ruled and ruined kings for centuries.”
Does no such thing. You do know that the city states around Rome have been governed by the bishop of Rome, at least going back to the collapse of the Western Emperor. This is close to 1600 years. Far longer than any other Western government including that of France.
’ “Biblicist” simply means having a faith based on the Bible.’
That is what you say it means. It has absolutely no relevance to the period, and is ahistorical rubbish. Did the Christians of the time call themselves ‘biblicists?’ No. So there is no need to insert our own term to refer to them when they had names for themselves that we ought to use instead.
Names like the Catholic church.
“Because there have always been, since the Apostles’ ministries, true Christians which based their faith on the Scriptures”
Really. You ARE aware that the scriptures that you have today were first published by the Pope in the Vatican who decided what books should be used, books you don’t even use and that you refer to as ‘biblicist’, when you tear such books out of the bible?
Complete and utter hogwash. They referred to themselves by the Creeds when they were declared, and as Catholics and Christians.
“Vaticanism has always been forced to use the Bible (almost always messing it up, of course), to try to make people think it is legitimate, which it is not. It is an impostor, a mere caricature, a religious buffoon.”
Well considering as they wrote and put the blasted thing together, I should think they would use it.
The Universal Church!
Judith,
I didnt see any slander of the RCC on here. The argument revolves around the theology of the RCC. One of the major arguments is the importance of Mary, in relation to scripture and her elevation and ability to intercede to the Lord on a sinners behalf. Catholics seem to want it both ways, they claim that they dont “worship” Mary, but why then are their statues of her outside of RC Churches, why the shrines to her in the yards of many RC homes, and why the prayers directed to her in the rosary?
Which is why she lived in the care of his ‘brothers’? ;)
Of course she needed care. She would have been an aged widow at that point in time, and I don’t know about you but families looked after each other back then.
Why are there statues of her?
Are there statues of just her? No. Are there statues of Christ and other saints? Yes.
The statues are there for the same reason why any statue is built, to honour and commemorate her.
Now, again, do you believe it is right and proper to have statues of Christ?
“That means that she and Christ were both qualified to save people from their sins. Cough, cough.”
Oh, really? Is that why Christ is both fully God and fully Man? Why is this crucial to the atonement that he is both of these things?
The passover lamb without blemish requires that Christ be both man AND God in order to serve as the substitutionary sacrifice. Mary is not God so she cannot qualify.
Well then, point out where I’m in error, and we can proceed.
So you believe it’s wrong to have a statue in honour of Christ?
Thank you. Finally, someone comes out and says this.
The problem for you, is that the Church already settled this matter, in the 7th Century. Icons are permissible.
that's because so many of them are now the YOPIOS crowd of their own peculiar sort, another sect broken off from old Rome, in the millions and growing.
Check post 397; alternatively, read the thread.
Regarding the Rosary, do you know what it is?
Which is btw, what 1 Cor 3:13-7 says, that we will receive our reward if our works stand. Reward in heaven. Go read it yourself. It’s all there.
That does not make sense.
You say that as if that were something significant.
People have always been breaking off spitting off, forming their own churches. What’s so special about this one?
I went into one once where apparently she was the Christmas tree, all the gifts were laid at the feet of this montrous idol, about 3 times the size of a human, in the lobby.
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