Posted on 12/17/2010 7:31:07 AM PST by marshmallow
Agreed. Luther and Calvin like the Pope are humans and are known to error, which is precisely why we hold the Bible as truth.
That’s a trick question. :-)
There is a difference between praying for someone and praying to Mary (who is in Heaven) to intercede for you. The first one is clearly biblical but the later is not.
Matthew 13:55 - “Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
I've heard the phrase "more Catholic than the Pope".
Would this be an example of "more Protestant than Luther"?
“The whole issue of purgatory”
What’s your take on 1 Cor 3:13 which states that on the day of judgment our works will be tested by fire? And those who’s works perish will escape, but only as one escaping through the flames?
“confession of sins to a Priest”
Christ says to Peter in Matthew 16:19
“Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound on heaven, and whatsoever you loose on earth shall be loosed to heaven.”
Christ clearly gives the Apostles the power to forgive sins. This is why priests, as the successors of the Apostles can do the same.
“One true faith” gets a little old at times.
Do you believe that Christ would abandon his faithful for 1500 years?
Oh boy.....here comes the Mary Defamers and the Catholic haters.....and so near Christmas!!
“Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brethren, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
Does this mean the same thing?
These Protestant Reformers do not agree with you at all -- they believed in the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Also -- one Catholic viewpoint.
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”
You said intercession. We are commanded to pray for one another, and we can ask Mary, who is in heaven, to pray for us, just as I can pray for you, or you can pray for me. This is all that is meant by intercession.
You are very right that we are not to pray TO Mary, but we can ask her to pray for us sinners, which is exactly what Catholics do when they pray the Rosary.
“Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, Now and at the hour of our death, Amen.”
Where does one go after they fall away from even being a Methodist?
Your tagline is inspirational. Thanks for the reminder.
Show me in the Bible, where we can ask people *in* Heaven to pray for us and I will concede the point.
* Matthew 1:24-25 - “And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.”
* Matthew 12:46-47 - “While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
* Matthew 13:55 - “Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
* Mark 6:2-3 - “And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
* John 2:12 - “After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”
* Acts 1:14 - “These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.”
* 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - “Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?”
* Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother.”
Show me in the Scripture where there is a perpetual penalty box, where one must sit until an outside force determines you may either ascend to Heaven or descend to Hell. (Unless of course, your friends and family contribute enough money for you to catch the express train out)
I’ll see you Matthew and raise you a Timothy.
1 Tim. 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Christ never abandoned his faithful, the RCC chose to go with its own version of events rather than the Scripture.
Thanks...Have a Blessed Christmas!!
Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
Matthew 17:4
I have certainly been in the boat you’re floating, for several decades, so I do get it. It is a mystery isn’t it, who succombs and who will not, and who is drawn and who is not? I agree that the Catholic Church is not the broad road, one of near entire and unaccountable spiritual ease, comfort, and assurance, but Jesus never encouraged such a path so different from his own.
You are a gem for wishing me a blessed Christmas, and being a sport about your loss and my gain.
I catch the lip curling sneer in your question, Ann, but don’t have an answer at the moment.
The implication here is that somehow the perverted view of Mary held by the RCC is shared by those in the Reformation. Dream on, folks. And, once again, the believers in Jesus Christ, alone, dismiss, repudiate, disavow and expose this dangerous cult-like worship of Mary for what it is...heresy from Rome.
“Show me in the Scripture where there is a perpetual penalty box, where one must sit until an outside force determines you may either ascend to Heaven or descend to Hell.”
Isn’t that what it means when it says that our works will be tested by fire? Isn’t that sort of like a penalty box? You sit there until the works have been tested, and if you fail, you suffer and are cleansed by the fire.
“Unless of course, your friends and family contribute enough money for you to catch the express train out”
That’s a different issue, indulgences, not purgatory. You are quite right, that family and friends do not need to contribute anything for souls in purgatory in order for them to pass through. Which is what the Church teaches.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”
Is ‘mediator’ the same as ‘intercessor’? No. You are quite right that there is only one ‘mediator’, and that is Christ who gave Himself as a ransom.
Christ never abandoned his faithful, the RCC chose to go with its own version of events rather than the Scripture.
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