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To: HarleyD
I believe it would be simplier if we simply cut to the chase; where do you believe your faith come from? Do you believe you generate your faith or do you believe God gives you faith?

The Church believes that God enables men to be believe and then be saved. However, man has some responsibility in the matter. You give us snippets of Paul and we will reply with the words of Christ:

Matthew 7: 1 1 2 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. 3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? 5 You hypocrite, 3 remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye. 6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, 4 or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces. 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Salvation is given by God conditionally. It is not unconditional to some and unavailable to the rest of humanity.

As far as God is sovereign and that we are responsible-it really isn't a mystery. We are in bondage until God opens our ears and eyes to see the things that are of God. It is because of Christ that we can say that we once were blind but now we see.

The grace of God is given to all:

Matthew 5: 43 27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors 28 do the same? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? 29 48 So be perfect, 30 just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

It is what you do with that Grace that you are Judged upon:

Luke 12: 35 8 "Gird your loins and light your lamps 36 and be like servants who await their master's return from a wedding, ready to open immediately when he comes and knocks. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds vigilant on his arrival. Amen, I say to you, he will gird himself, have them recline at table, and proceed to wait on them. 38 And should he come in the second or third watch and find them prepared in this way, blessed are those servants. 39 Be sure of this: if the master of the house had known the hour when the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be prepared, for at an hour you do not expect, the Son of Man will come." 41 Then Peter said, "Lord, is this parable meant for us or for everyone?" 42 And the Lord replied, "Who, then, is the faithful and prudent steward whom the master will put in charge of his servants to distribute (the) food allowance at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master on arrival finds doing so. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will put him in charge of all his property. 45 But if that servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' 9 and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 then that servant's master will come on an unexpected day and at an unknown hour and will punish him severely and assign him a place with the unfaithful. 47 That servant who knew his master's will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely; 48 and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.

We are all servants of God. Those who know of Him are required to act in a responsible manner - all Christians, in other words. This passage describes all men and the consequences of each of their actions (or inactions). Those in a position of authority (the stewards and bishops of Christ) who abuse their authority will come into special punishment - hence the saying that the floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.

27 posted on 12/18/2010 9:23:03 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr
However, man has some responsibility in the matter. You give us snippets of Paul and we will reply with the words of Christ:

What I have posted has not be "snippets" of Paul. There are verses after verses in scripture that tells us that we are "the elect", "the chosen", we've been "predestined before the foundations of the world", etc. Our Lord Himself said, "No once can come to the me unless the Father draws him", or "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME BUT I CHOSE YOU." What people are doing is nothing more than directly contradicting our Lord Jesus. These are certainly not "snippets". People just can't put their theology in order.

As far as judging, there is nothing for me to judge. I'm simply parroting scripture. What people decide to do with it I don't know. However, a person cannot have a high view of scripture unless they take all scripture within context.

Salvation is given by God conditionally. It is not unconditional to some and unavailable to the rest of humanity.

There are no conditions to the grace of God. God calls all men to Himself. All men reject that calling. You can't place a condition on a free gift otherwise it's not free.

God keeps calling. Man keeps rejecting. God keeps calling. Man keeps rejecting. I don't know how God can possibly deal with the frustration.

The fact is, if God is going to save anyone then He has to make a special effort. This is no different then God appearing to Paul on the road, walking up to Peter and saying follow me, appearing in a burning bush to Moses, telling Hannah that Samuel will be a godly man, etc.

God works the same way in these lives as He does in ours. I would suggest that every Christian here would say that it was God who worked in their life to bring them to salvation. But yet we turn around and say that we have a choice. What that really illustrates is the sinfulness and ungratefulness of our nature.

34 posted on 12/20/2010 4:01:48 AM PST by HarleyD
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