Posted on 12/15/2010 5:09:09 PM PST by RnMomof7
I meant theological - *not* theoretical.
On that, I certainly agree. It wasn’t a problem between us at all.
Indeed it is so obvious. Remember how they baited Jesus? Nothing new under the sun.
Are you (plural) comparing yourselves to Jesus?
ROFLOL!!!!
con substaniation /Consubstantiation
Yea that is a gigantic typing error.. going to hell for sure
Now one more time..is the spiritual less REAL than the physical?
One of the most unlikeable things about a post like that is the arrogant, pedantic nature of the thing. "Now, one more time..." -- anyone reading that would be tempted to say, "A million more times, who cares?" No one answers to a poster who "demands" an answer, as though it were some authority speaking.
Maybe sometimes people just like to brag that they can count to one?
What are you talking about??? You posted one denomination...Baptists...
They must think that we’re as stupid as they are if they really think we’d fall for something like that.
What Catholics as a whole seem to miss is that the Gospel is about Jesus, not Mary.
Sure Mary played a role in Jesus life, but lots of people did, in order to fulfill prophecy too.
So clueless.....
2 Timothy 3:7 .....always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
I know...
cronos: -- the ones who I know NOW are all Catholics.
That's because you ARE Catholic. You don't experience Catholic *charity* from the outside.
So when Catholics, as a whole, recite "Glory to You, oh Lord" before the Gospel reading and "Praise to You, Lord Jesus Christ" at the conclusion of the Gospel reading, we're actually talking about Mary?
cronos: -- the ones who I know NOW are all Catholics.
That's because you ARE Catholic. You don't experience Catholic *charity* from the being on the outside.
I realized that what I said previously could (and likely would) be twisted by some *charitable* Catholic and I just wanted to specify. Catholics treat each other much differently and much better than they treat the *heretics*. The *heretics* experience of being the recipient of Catholic charity is quite different than a Catholics experience of being the recipient of Catholic *charity*.
This following prayer by one of your own popes isn’t about Jesus. Catholicism needs to get rid of idolatry like this and there’s plenty more like it and it starts at the top down.
Adding enough Jesus as window dressing to give the appearance of legitimacy does NOT Christianity make.
Prayer of Pope Pius XII
In Honor of the Immaculate Conception
http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm
Prayer of Pope Pius XII
Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.
O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.
Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.
As far as a container is concerned, the ark held the unbroken Commandments...The Commandments that were fulfilled in Jesus ...So the ark CONTAINED the unbroken Word of God?
Is a thing identical with that thing that contains it? In a can of tomatoes are the tomatoes the same as the can? Is a letter the same as the envelope? the book the same as the cover? Is the car the same as the passenger, the freight car the same as the freight?
The can holds the tomatoes; the envelope contains the letter; the cover covers the book; the passengers are in the car, and the freight car is not the contents.
So how is the ark the unbroken word which YOU say it CONTAINS?
And similarly: Jesus is indeed the bread which feeds the people, the fulfilment of the prefiguring manna. So is the ark the manna? Are you saying the ark was made of manna or was in any way identical to the manna which it contained?
We do not think Mary is identical with Jesus, however much our antagonists say we do. We do not think of contained is the same as the thing it contains.
So if the ark contained the manna, and themanna is the symbol (or 'type') of Jesus, then the ark is NOT the symbol of Jesus, but rather the symbol of what contained or held Jesus.
If the Ark contained "the ten words", the Word of God, and if those words are the antetype of Jesus, the Son of God, Him whom John calls the Word, then the ark is the type of what contained and held Jesus.
So, of course in one sense the ark is the 'type' of the Church -- whatever ones' ecclesiology. But that does not interfere with it's being a type of other things or persons who held Jesus or contained Jesus.
Mary "contained" Jesus for around nine months. She "held" him for much longer. So who can argue what is a type and what isn't, but it seems to me that SINCE Mary held Jesus, Jesus is the true bread which comes down from heaven, and Jesus is the Word;
AND SINCE the ark held the ten words and the manna, bread which came down from heaven,
THEN much of your argument works to support the notion that the ark of the Covenant is a 'type' of Mary. You yourself made the analogies between the manna, the commandments and Jesus, you yourself used the words "contained" and "held", so you yourself made the arguments for why the ark is a type of Mary.
To show that it is ALSO a type of Jesus does not show that it is not a type of Mary, so these sweeping blanket pronouncements which try to substitute firm rhetoric for reason accomplish nothing.
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