The Wacky World of Joseph Smith: And the un-Christianity of Mormon Theology

CATHOLIC ANSWERS ^ | Brian Harrison

[Saundra Duffy]

“how many wives did the Mormon jesus have?”

I believe everything in the Bible and your question is highly offensive.

[Saundra Duffy]

“are you talking about the lds created jesus or the eternal Jesus of the Bible?”

I don’t know what you are talking about. My Jesus Christ, my personal Savior, suffered and died for me to save me from my sins. Apparently, my Jesus is different from your Jesus. Your Jesus condemns me and refuses to accept me; your Jesus prefers to belittle and poke fun at me. My Jesus has respect and love and acceptance for me as I have accepted Him into my heart as my Lord and Savior. I am grateful to Heavenly Father for His Plan of Salvation without which I would be lost forever. The Holy Ghost ever lives to draw us closer to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. This is the Good News of the Gospel but unfortunately apparently you do not believe a word I say because I am a Mormon. Even though Jesus died for me, too.

[MHGinTN]

The following are direct quotes from your leadership. See if this is the same Jesus you found in the The Bible. [By the way, Sandy, the last quote, the 'Lucifer' your Joseph Smith taught about was not in the supposed direct quotes Smith claimed came from the Book of Isaiah found in the B of M. And that same Lucifer, according to your leadership, is the spirit brother of the Mormon jesus, and shows up prominently in the Smithian fiction called the Book of Abraham/Pearl of Great Price. And BTW, Sandy, it is indeed offensive for Mormonism to teach that Jesus had wives since He IS God, not a propagated brother of satan as taught in Momronism.:

And whom is the Mormon jesus? A polygamist, according to the founders of the Mormon religion!

"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).

"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).

"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).

"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).

"One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).

And is/was the Mormon jesus, God with us? NO! Not according to Mormonism. Mormonism teaches that the Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood and was not therefore God with us prior to the resurrection! And they teach that the Mormon jesus and satan are spirit brothers in a ‘pre-existence’, making the Mormon jesus an equal with not superior to the created angels … of course prior to gaining the attributes of Mormon godhood. [Literally, according to the founders of Mormonism, the LDS jesus is our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in a ‘premortal life‘. According to Momronism, Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (LDS Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)(D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354) ]

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).

“It is readily apparent from these scriptures that there was a war in heaven in which Christ and Satan (Lucifer) fought against each other, and that there were followers of each. Satan was defeated and cast out along with his “angels” or followers. Where were all these followers, and who were they? The answer is that they were us. Christ and Satan and their followers warred in a heaven that pre-existed this earth and mortal existence. All of us lived in this heavenly spiritual realm before we were born with physical bodies on the earth. Christ was begotten of the Father, as were all of us, including Lucifer, who was a Son of the Morning. The title “Son of the Morning” could either signify that Lucifer was one of the earliest born of the spirits, or was illustrious, or both. The name Lucifer means “lightbearer” or “shining one.” Since both Christ and Lucifer were born of the Father, they are brothers in a spiritual sense, as all of us are brothers and sisters in that sense. (LDS teaching regarding Joseph Smith‘s, Pearl of Great Price: Book of Moses 4:1-4)

[svcw]

Show me where the eternal Jesus of the Bible as you say: Your Jesus condemns me and refuses to accept me; your Jesus prefers to belittle and poke fun at me. Just one example where the eternal Jesus does this.

You for got to add the remaining of the lds mantra so I will do it for you: My Jesus Christ, my personal Savior, suffered and died for me to save me from my sins after all we can do."

The Good News, yep I agree the eternal Jesus is the Good News, not the created jesus of lds.

I too am grateful for the Plan of Salvation it is by Grace we are Saved not by works (which is what lds teach).

Sandy your words here differs from lds teachings.

[Godzilla]

“are you talking about the lds created jesus or the eternal Jesus of the Bible?”
I don’t know what you are talking about.

It is apparent you don't or you could have answered the question quite readily. further evidenced by the reflexive testimony mode reply. Let me put the mormon truth cookies where you can reach them SD.

Mormon Jesus was created, begotten by heavenly father/adam and one of his many wives; had to earn the right to become a god.

"Christ the Word, the Firstborn, had of course attained unto the status of Godhood while yet in pre-existence" (What Mormons Think of Christ, p.36).

Further SD, mormon Jesus' work on the cross is insufficient for our complete salvation (exaltation) and we must also perform works in order to be fully saved.

The Third Article of Faith states: "We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel"

How well are you earning your salvation SD? Spencer W. Kimball stated: "living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation..." (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.164-165). Where's mormon Jesus in all of that SD? Mormon Jesus cannot guarantee you salvation - only your works can.

In fact SD, B.H. Roberts (you know - the one I cited earlier you haven't responded to) stated: "what is needful for the salvation of the soul where one's sins place him beyond the reach of vicarious means of salvation [by Jesus] --- then it is the shedding of the sinner's own blood that must be here referred to" (A Comprehensive History of the Church, vol.4, p.129, 1965). Apparently from all that suffering and death - Mormon Jesus doesn't even save you from ALL your sins SD.

Yes, the mormon Jesus is different from the Jesus of Christianity-He is able to save and deliver all from sin without requiring works of righteousness. Remember SD -

"our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment (bloody menstrual cloths)" (Is. 64:6).

Are you fully repentant of your sins?

[Saundra Duffy]

“mormon truth cookies “

What we believe is found in the LDS Articles of Faith which, as you know, I dare not post here because the religion mod permits the anti Mormons to have a field day tearing them apart, desecreting them, and trampling them under foot.

Therefore, you may continue on your quest to discredit me and my faith and I am unable to adequately respond.

[MHGinTN]

What a crock of soured milk! I'm going to post your A's of F and it will not hurt the truth one bit. The truth is, Momronism is founded in a non'Christian jesus and a non-Christian god, as illuistrated clearly above with direct quotes from your non-Christian founders!

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

[SZonian]

"Therefore, you may continue on your quest to discredit me and my faith and I am unable to adequately respond."

Sakes alive! Where in the blue blazes does one get the gumption to be able to post something like this with a "straight face"?

Surely this is satire? Right?

Do I need to give you actual examples of attempts to "discredit" posters?

[Godzilla]

Perhaps you need to follow the RM's rules and not hang out here if you are this thin skinned

Is "desecreting" even a word?

AFA discrediting you, I have no need

Discreding mormonism - mormonism does it on its own SD. I supplied words from your priesthood authorities to contrast this mormon Jesus with the Jesus of the Bible. You are silent to their voices.

Perhaps you weren't informed on EXACTLY what deeper meat was present in mormonism when you joined.

Perhaps a realization that what you have been 'taught' isn' quite right.

Lots of "perhaps" SD only you can answer.

Is former 70 and apostle Roberts correct in that heavenly father's plan of salvation includes the necessity of you shedding your own blood for your sins?

How did Jesus attain to godhood status in the pre-existance?

Truth doesn't bring fear, fear only comes from realizing you've made a very big mistake.

[Religion Moderator]

If the town square format of “open” Religion Forum threads bother you, then IGNORE them altogether and instead post to threads labeled “ecumenical” “caucus” “prayer” or “devotional.”

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“That’s exactly what they said of Jesus Christ when He was on the earth.”

Actually, no one said that about Christ.

Christ performed actual miracles.
Joe Smith claimed to see treasure underground and bilked people to get it.

Christ SPOKE and FULFILLED the Bible.
Joe plagiarized HUGE portions of the Bible.

Christ was without sin.
Joe specialized in sin.

Christ was unmarried.
Joe stole other men’s wives and married them.

Christ was God.
Joe was a horndog and charlatan.

They had nothing in common.

Even Satan recognized Christ as the Son of God.
Satan recognized Joe as his servant.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. [We also believe God, the Eternal Father used to be a sinful man and later became God the Father. We also believe Jesus Christ was a created spirit being, who later became a man and later became a mormon god. We also believe the Holy Ghost was a created spirit being, who never got a body because he sinned. We also believe these are three separate gods and not ONE God, as the Bible talks about. Also, since they were all created spirit beings, some of which got bodies on earth before becoming mormon gods, they used to not be eternal, but now they are eternal. We also believe there is a Heavenly Mother God, well, at least one, maybe more than one, since we still believe in celestial polygamy. We also believe there are millions or even trillions of other mormon gods and than each mormon male can potentially become a god too, complete with his own goddess wives, a planet, worshippers, etc. This depends on doing enough mormonic works. Every mormon woman can potentially become a mormonic goddess and become eternally pregnant. All told, we believe in a lot of gods.]
   

Ol ' Joseph Smith

[MHGinTN]

The god of LDS Mormonism is not an eternal god because he was once born in the spirit world, then into a body and lived as a man, then became exalted and raised to godhood by a council of gods who chose one god for Earth. The Mormon god gained the attributes of godhood, which is of course antithetical to the Judeo-Christian concept of The One God.

The other two individual gods in the Mormonic godhead (the Mormon jesus and the Mormon holy spirit) were added later, so the godhead of Mormonism is a line of succession, with grandfathers to gods, and great grandfathers to gods and ... well, you get the gist.

I've yet to hear from a Mormonism apologists just whom sat upon the council of gods which chose the Mormon god for earth. The use of the phrase 'eternal father' is just a Mormonic deception due to ignorance by Joey Smith not understanding the definition of eternal. Things with a beginning are not eternal things.

[MHGinTN]

One wonders how many and which Mormons actually know these were the founding aspects of Mormonism? Could so many nice people be so completely ignorant? Or do they know yet do not oppose the heresies in Mormonism? ... One wonders

[aMorePerfectUnion]

MHG,

As you know, mormonism has beliefs that never withstand scrutiny. Even worse, the more detailed you examine them, the fuzzier they become.

I’ve come to believe mormons (as we see here on FR) prefer not to ask questions. As long as they stick with the big picture, they can feel good... and mormonism is based on feelings. If they ask too many questions, they would realized there aren’t answers.

You, of course, see it clearly. They don’t. And they prefer it that way, judging by the claims that they just believe their AOF.

We can just be available for God. He must open their eyes.

best,
ampu

[Saundra Duffy]

Please stop typing what you THINK I believe. I believe the LDS Articles of Faith - unabridged by anti Mormons.

[Saundra Duffy]

It’s not that it “bothers” me; it’s that it’s harassment of Mormons by anti Mormons. To change, alter, or otherwise crap all over our Articles of Faith is to crap all over me and my faith.

This is the very last straw. I want to discontinue my membership in this disgusting organization immediately. I have posted here since 1998; freeped along side Jim Robinson HIMSELF all these years. I have Freeped when I was the only one who showed up.

But I will not tolerate this abuse one minute longer. Let the anti Mormons continue on their merry way unhindered by truth and justice and fair play.

I’m outta here!!!!!!!!!!!

[Godzilla]

Please stop typing what you THINK I believe. I believe the LDS Articles of Faith - unabridged by anti Mormons.

Interesting SD - MHG's post was about mormon polytheism. A remarkable little note left out of the PR driven AoF don't cha think? You don't believe that there are uncountable numbers of 'gods' out there in the mormon spiritual realm? Really??? Have you been studing you quad? Did you do your Gospel Principles lessons?

[MHGinTN]

Caring for the eternal destiny of those caught up in the lies and heresies of Mormonism, one is left to ask how far from the actual Jesus can religious beliefs stray and still have Holy Spirit protection?

We read the 'testimony' of Mormons on these threads who claim they believe in and are trusting in the Jesus of the Bible. Yet when we read the dogma of the Mormon religion we discover such heresies as attributing brother status to satan and the Momron jesus, and we read that the founder of Mormonism taught that God was once a man and is enthroned in yonder heavens now ... and the peepstone sexual predator of married women wasn't referring to Jesus, he was asserting that about the father of the Mormon jesus!

Just how far into heretical assignations of God and The Christ can people go and still have Jesus as their Lord?

[MHGinTN]

Saundra, I posted the As of F without adding or taking out a single word as authored by your peepstone sexual predator of married women, Joseph Smith.