Posted on 12/10/2010 9:41:02 AM PST by topcat54
That is beside the point. Yes, the muzzies are evil. BUT they are our cousins, Ishamael and Esau. They believe G-d is one. Take it up with G-d not me.
God permitted Hadrian to build a temple to Iupiter Capitolinus on top of the Temple Mount,
So what. It doesnt mean that G-d sanctioned it and it didnt stand long.
Incidentally, Jerusalem wouldn't be under Jewish control today without the help of some of those Christian "total heretics".
Oh, you mean the Church? Who slaughtered the Jews in the crusades? Inquistion? And hundreds of Pogroms of Europe? The Writings of Martin Luther that inspired one, Adolph Hitler? And the church of Rome still is kean of a State of Israel. It was G-d who founded and kept the State of Israel.
What do these verses from Isaiah 17 mean:
"The fortress also will cease from Ephraim,"
"In that day it shall come to pass That the glory of Jacob will wane, And the fatness of his flesh grow lean."
What is the “fortress of Ephraim” in modern terms? What is the “glory of Jacob”, and how will it's waning be manifest?
"I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords." (Eze. 38)
Who are the armies of Gog, and how do you see this being played out? Do you expect to see armies on horseback with swords and spears riding against modern Israel in the near future?
I would say that no one can believe that God would allow the Mosque and the Temple to both exist in Jerusalem.
Why can no on believe this? If you're speculating on the rest of this stuff, why must anyone believe this part?
And all this is supposed to happen in the next 7-8 years?
According to Zechariah, why are the two-thirds “cut off”? Is it your opinion that Zechariah teaches that only one-third of God's “chosen people” in that day will have the opportunity to see the salvation of the Lord?
“You can leave us to deal with the muzzies...that is fine. G-d will protect us, not the church or America. The bible never says anything about the “nations” saving Israel. But G-d...will!”
Maybe God could start providing foreign aid as well. And all of these Christian ministries flying Jews to Israel on “wings of eagles” could let God fly them home on angels’ wings. Israel has very few friends in the world but you actually made the asinine comment that Muslims were closer to the truth than Christians. I’d say you both do have something in common as you both deny the true Messiah and you both are legalists. Maybe America should just stay out of it, “declare ourselves above it all” and let Israel and the Arab nations kill each other? Then we can put to the test which God is stronger, the god of the Talmud or the god of the Koran.
So have fun with that. I’ll be thinking of Moses and Mohammad when I enjoy me some barbecued pork.
It depends on what you mean by “fortune tellers”. If you’re meaning these flashy “prophets” like Benny Hinn, then I definitely classify them as heretics. If you simply mean the charismatic movement in general, then yeah, I agree with you.
Just for clarification, why do you believe the Hebrew phrase in Isaiah 17:1 is properly interpreted the way you require?
And it was G_O_D who removed Biblical Israel from the land on more than one occasion for idolatry and whoring after other nations, and who finally destroyed the city in A.D. 70 for rejecting their Messiah.
Who’s to say G_O_D won’t allow that to happen again? I mean, you don’t even have the temple to hide behind now, and that certainly didn’t protect Israel from destruction or dispersion.
Face it, the majority of Israel are not even orthodox Jews; they are secularists. The Israeli I served with in the U.S. Army has tons of friends in the IDF. He told me that most of the young people hate religion. They view the orthodox rabbis the same way young Iranians view the mullahs. And when comparing the strict, legalistic superstitious Talmud with the Koran, it’s easy to see why. Thanks for pointing out all that you have in common with your brothers who your fellow Israelis may eventually have to offer dhimitude to, demographics being what they are... unless “Christian” America steps in and saves your “bacon”.
On a funnier note, my Israeli friend claims that most Israel would be happy with a tract of land in Arizona and to join the U.S., seeing that they are the 51st state and are nothing more than a strip of desert.
“It was G-d who founded and kept the State of Israel.”
Thanks to Christian Britian and America via that evil United Nations.
You’re right: End Times fantasists have no idea how difficult rebuilding the Temple is, frequently mistaking tourist attractions for the real thing.
If Agudath Israel of America and Chabad aren’t endorsing any attempt, it ain’t happenin’ any time soon!
Jeremiah 3:16 And when you have multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, declares the Lord, they shall no more say, “The ark of the covenant of the Lord.” It shall not come to mind or be remembered or missed; it shall not be made again.
Kind of fitting in contrast to this other 3:16,
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
The burden of Damascus, &c.] A heavy and grievous prophecy, concerning the destruction of it; the Arabic version is,
``the prophecy of Isaiah concerning Damascus;''
and the Targum is,
``the burden of the cup of cursing to give Damascus to drink.''
Behold, Damascus is taken away from [being] a city; a kingdom, as the Targum; it was the head of one, but now its walls were demolished, its houses pulled down, and its inhabitants carried captive; this was done by Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, ( 2 Kings 16:9 ) it had been a very ancient city, see ( Genesis 15:2 ) and the head of the kingdom of Syria, ( Isaiah 7:8 ) , and though it underwent this calamity, it was rebuilt again, and was a city of great fame, when destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, ( Jeremiah 49:24 Jeremiah 49:25 ) after which it was raised up again, and was in being in the apostle's time, and still is, ( Acts 9:22 ) ( 2 Corinthians 11:32 )
and it shall be a ruinous heap; or a heap of stones, as the Targum and Kimchi interpret it. A "behold" is prefixed to the whole, as being very wonderful and remarkable, unthought of, and unexpected.
The cities of Aroer are forsaken The inhabitants of them being slain, or carried captive, or obliged to flee. Aroer was a city by the river Arnon, on the borders of Moab and Ammon, ( Deuteronomy 2:36 ) ( Deuteronomy 3:12 ) , it was originally in the hands of the Amorites, and sometimes in the hands of the Moabites and Ammonites: it was given by Moses to the Reubenites and, Gadites, from whom it was taken by the Syrians, and in whose possession it seems to have been at this time; see ( 2 Kings 10:33 ) though Jarchi thinks it was now in the hands of Pekah king of Israel, and said to be forsaken, because the Reubenites and Gadites were now carried captive. Jerom F13 says it was seen in his time, upon the top of the mountain. Here it seems to designs a country of this name, in which were many cities. Grotius thinks it was a tract of land in Syria, the same with the Aveira of Ptolemy F14. Vitringa is of opinion that Damascus itself is meant, which was a double city, like that divided by the river Chrysorrhoas, as this was by Arnon.
They shall be for flocks which shall lie down; instead of houses, there should be sheepcotes and shepherds' tents, and instead of men, sheep; and where streets were, grass would grow, and flocks feed and lie down; which is expressive of the utter desolation of these cities, or this tract of ground:
and none shall make [them] afraid; the flocks of sheep, timorous creatures, easily frightened; but so great should be the depopulation now, there would be no man upon the spot, or any pass by, to give them any disturbance.
The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim The ten tribes, now in confederacy with the Syrians, whose metropolis or fortress was Samaria, which seems to be intended here; and should be destroyed, at least taken out of the hands of the Israelites, and they be carried captive by Shalmaneser king of Assyria, ( 2 Kings 17:6 ) and this may be understood, not of that particular city and fortress only, but of all their strongholds, the singular being, put for the plural. The Targum is, "the government shall cease from Ephraim"; they shall have no more a king over them, nor have they to this day:
and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria; Damascus was the head city of Syria, where the kings of Syria had their palace; but now that and the rest of Syria should no more be a kingdom of itself, but should be subject unto others, as it has been ever since:
they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the Lord of hosts; that is, the Syrians, who were in alliance with Israel, should share the same fate; should be carried captive as they were; should have their metropolis and other cities, and their whole kingdom, taken from them, and be stripped of their grandeur and wealth, and have no more glory than they had; which was none at all; or at least very small, as the next verse shows ( Isaiah 17:4 ) .
And in that day it shall come to pass It being much about the same time that both kingdoms were destroyed by the Assyrians:
[that] the glory of Jacob shall be made thin; the same with Ephraim and Israel, the ten tribes, whose glory lay in the superior number of their tribes to Judah; in the multitude of their cities, and the inhabitants of them; but now would be thinned, by the vast numbers that should be carried captive:
and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean:
like a man in a consumption, that is become a mere skeleton, and reduced to skin and bones: the meaning is, that all their wealth and riches should be taken away; so the Targum,
>>Is it your opinion that Zechariah teaches that only one-third of God’s “chosen people” in that day will have the opportunity to see the salvation of the Lord?<<
It does say that two thirds of them will be cut off and die. Only a third will be left alive. It does say in the previous chapter that they repented so the Salvation part I will leave to God.
>>Just for clarification, why do you believe the Hebrew phrase in Isaiah 17:1 is properly interpreted the way you require?<<
First let’s get something straight. I don’t require anything. It’s my interpretation that Isaiah is saying that Damascus “is taken away from being a city” would indicate that it would no longer be a city after that.
Yes, but what it it about the Hebrew that leads you to that conclusion?
>>Jeremiah 3:16 And when you have multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, declares the Lord, they shall no more say, “The ark of the covenant of the Lord.” It shall not come to mind or be remembered or missed; it shall not be made again.<<
That will surely happen after the battle of Armageddon.
Where? And who are the “they” you are referring to?
Why are two-thirds destroyed in chapter 13 is they repented?
lol
It is my interpretation that after the Nations that come against Israel are destroyed the people of Israel realize and repent. I will concede that I could be wrong on that point but it seems correct from what I have studied.
Zechariah12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; 13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
I am referring to the "prophecy teachers," who unsettle and alarm God's people with wild and extravagant claims. Such as -- "we are now living in the last days," or "the Second Coming is almost upon us!"
This lunatic fringe has done great harm to the people of God, and to the credibility of the Gospel. Other than the general resurrection at the end of history, the Bible is a book of fulfilled prophecy. If someone asserts differently, check your wallet -- he's trying to run a scam on you. He's trying to rob you of something far more precious than money -- namely, the hope of achieving substantial achievements for the glory of God. High achievement in strenuous and influential vocations takes TIME. And lots of it. How many folks will pursue careers as coloratura sopranos, or university professors, if they don't believe, deep down, that they have the necessary time to consecrate to preparing for those demanding vocations?
Uh huh...you dont know your bible very well do you. I suppose we should thank Egypt or Pharoh for freeing the Israelites? Or Thank Persia or Cyrus for freeing the Jews from captivity? You have a lot of nerve.
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