Was Mary Sinless?

The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

[Cronos]

Well then, why do you follow Augustine?

[Cronos]

Which version? KJV or NIV?

[Cronos]

"Those who seek to mislead unbelievers into believing Mary is Divine"

Why does your cult think Mary was divine?

The Church rejects your cult for teaching this heresy. Stop it. The One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church recognises Mary as God's creation, His mother and His creation. If your cult wants to make her divine, stop it -- go somewhere else

[Cronos]

Ah, the ignored question —>Please cite scripture which says everything should be in (as opposed to “should not contradict”) scripture.

[Cronos]

We like to believe that the Holy Spirit is all-powerful and He protected Mary from sin. Mary did nothing great, all of it was from God and by God, all Mary did was say yes, everything else was from God and is for the greater glory of God.

Do you think it impossible for the Holy Spirit to preserve a created being like Mary from sin?

Next your cult will be saying that God has stopped working miracles

[Cronos]

Of course, He can do it for us as well — do you doubt His power? Why do you question it?

[Cronos]

Maybe, however, that does not negate the fact that he was quite a learned, well-read and multi-lingual man. Far more knowledgeable about linguistics, history and even scripture than humble fishermen.

[Judith Anne]

Thank you.

[Cronos]

Whichever counterfeit false cult you belong to, it's just a minor cog of the false churches (7 or more) formed by various cult-leaders.

Tell your pastor that his cult will not last as long as the Paulicians, but be dead soon enough as it is a false teaching.

And when your cult dies out, remember that Christ's Church, the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church will continue.

[RobbyS]

The Church follows Augustine to extent that Augustine followed the Church. Ditto St. Thomas or any other theologian.

[1000 silverlings]

*Actually, I believe many of them do have a great answer and Biblical truths and signs following.*

Yes, there's plenty of Catholics out there of all stripes, and yet a few posters hereon want us to think there's only one big happy Catholic church headquartered in Rome. What a laugh. The serfs all escaped the plantation years ago, so the popes decided "cant fight'em, join'em". Maybe they send tithes to the manor for nominal inclusion, and to keep Rome from killing them lol

[Cronos]

are blood drinkers

Uh, uh, uh, even our Christian brethern in the traditional Anglican Church believe in the True Presence. Even our Christian brethern in orthodox Lutheran churches like the LCMS etc. believe in the sacramental union, that the body and blood of Jesus are present "in, with and under" the forms of bread and wine

Do you malign them too?

see, seesac, these are what should have been properly called anti-Christians (wagglebee called them anti-Catholics). They will attack Catholics, and when there are no Catholics on the thread, they will attack Christian Protestants -- like this thread that say "It's disappointing to think that the Satanic doctrines of Arminianism " and attacking Methodists by saying "because Wesley preached the Gospel of Satan."

These folks are anti-Christians who seek to spread their hate as they don't believe in a God of love but a being of hate.

[Cronos]

You call the actions of the Holy Spirit satanic? Be careful.

[Cronos]

You call the actions of the Holy Spirit satanic? Be careful.

[Cronos]

Now, see, GB, repeating an untruth is par for the course and expected from some, but I didn't expect you to say it.

Anyway, I'll repeat it assuming that you didn't know "The Church teaches that our salvation is due to Christ's sacrifice which was super-sufficient" and Christ's divinity is in no way due to Mary's v or s.

[Cronos]

hardly -- I KNOW that you believe that Jesus Christ is God, that Jesus was/is/will be God. I know that you believe in the Trinity. Yet there are others here who we know for a fact are Unitarians (denying the Trinity and the divinity of God), are Messianic somethings (again denying Christ's divinity) and we have Iscool here who is muddled up and now questions whether the baby in Mary's womb was God or not.

These are just errors played over and over again -- becuase it's hard for people to understand that in our Lord Jesus Christ there was/is a 100% man and yet 100% God and that He was not adopted into godhood. Read the posts of some of those out here and you'll see that they deny the basic trinitarian idea of God, the divinity of Christ

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I knew I recognized the patter...

[the_conscience]

These folks are anti-Christians who seek to spread their hate as they don't believe in a God of love but a being of hate.

Isn't the "God is all love for all men" the basis for all liberal theologies?

And if your theology of "God is all love for all men" theology is correct what would it matter if someone is "anti-Catholic" or even "anti-Christian"?

[daniel1212]

I never heard that he spoke in tongues, which is Biblically a gift but not all have it and he did not need to, but he had the power (which i pray for more of). That this second filling happens is clear, but the theology is precise, perhaps as to not make a formula out of it.

Also, the “problem” with supernatural attestation in general - without which we would not have an Abraham, a Israel, a Bible or a church - is that the devil seeks to operate on the same level, and somewhat can do so. Thus Moses first 3 or 4 miracles were duplicated by the magicians, and the man of sin will deceive souls by such. In addition are the fabrications of the flesh which abound today.

In response ppl and churches tend to react to two extremes, one being to disallow such, which is “safe” but sterile, while the other opens the door to anything, being indecent or is out of order. And as the law was added bcz of transgressions, so liberty can only be realizes insofar s souls are controlled fro within by the Holy Spirit, who is a God of order as well as the spontaneous.

Moody was not well educated and his writings had lots of spelling mistakes, bu he was a man after God’s heart and learned much i the school of Christ.

Most if the divisions within the born again church is due to carnality, while as Wesley and Whitefield showed, who manifestly were at odds concerning predestination, those who were surrendered to Christ, who want to be like Him and used by Him, have an essential unity that is qualitatively superior to that which is the result of implicit trust in man.

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The following is from How Great Soul Winners Were Filled
With the Holy Spirit, by John R. Rice

The year 1871 was a critical one in Mr. Moody’s career. He realized more and more how little he was fired by personal acquirements for his work. An intense hunger and thirst for spiritual power were aroused in him by two women who used to attend the meetings and sit on the front seat. He could see by the expression on their faces that they were praying. At the close of services they would say to him:

“We have been praying for you.”

“Why don’t you pray for the people?” Mr. Moody would ask.

“Because you need the power of the Spirit,” they would say.

“I need the power! Why,” said Mr. Moody, in relating the incident years after, “I thought I had power. I had the largest congregations in Chicago, and there were many conversions. I was in a sense satisfied. But right along those two godly women kept praying for me, and their earnest talk about anointing for special service set me to thinking. I asked them to come and talk with me, and they poured out their hearts in prayer that I might receive the filling of the Holy Spirit. There came a great hunger into my soul. I did not know what it was. I began to cry out as I never did before. I really felt that I did not want to live if I could not have this power for service.”

Then the book tells of the great Chicago fire, of D. L. Moody’s relief work, the building of the north side tabernacle, and of his visiting in the East to secure funds for his work. Then the narrative continues:

During this Eastern visit the hunger for more spiritual power was still upon Mr. Moody.

“My heart was not in the work of begging,” he said. “I could not appeal. I was crying all the time that God would fill me with His Spirit. Well, one day, in the city of New York — oh, what a day! — I cannot describe it, I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name. Paul had an experience of which he never spoke for fourteen years. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not now be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you should give me all the world — it would be as the small dust of the balance.”
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20John%20Rice/soul_winning_and_holy_spirit_power.htm

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Moody recorded it in one of his diaries:

“The world has yet to see what God can do with and for and through a man who is fully and wholly consecrated to Him.” . . . A man! Varley meant any man. Varley didn’t say he had to be educated, or brilliant, or anything else. Just a man. Well, by the Holy Spirit in me I’ll be that man (quoted in John Pollock, Moody: The Biography [ Chicago : Moody, 1963, 1983], 115, author’s italics).

in London , in the gallery of the Metropolitan Tabernacle, Varley’s remark and Spurgeon’s preaching focused Moody’s attention on “something I had never realized before. It was not Spurgeon who was doing the work: it was God. And if God could use Spurgeon, why should He not use me?” (Moody: The Biography, 115).

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From ENDUEMENT FOR SERVICE, by D.L. Moody

They tarried as they were bidden, waiting and praying for the Holy Ghost, when suddenly the power came, and they were ready for work. And there was more work done in one day than in all the three years while they were with Christ. The Lord had said: “He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto My Father.” “If I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.” When the power came upon the Apostles, they did greater things than the Master ever did. There was a time when I thought the raising of Lazarus was the greatest work ever done on this earth. But I think the conversion of those 3,000 Jews on the day of Pentecost was more wonderful still. Those hard-hearted Jews were full of hatred and unbelief; many, no doubt, were the same men who murdered Christ. And yet they were swept down by the mighty power of the Spirit. We have got the same obstacles to contend with as the Apostles had. Our Gospel that we are preaching is a supernatural Gospel, and we have got to have supernatural power to preach it.

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D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Pastor of Westminster Chapel in London and the greatest Reformed preacher of the last generation in England writes, “The essence of a revival is that the Holy Spirit comes down upon a number of people together, upon a whole church, upon a number of churches, districts, or perhaps, a whole country. That is what is meant by revival. It is, if you like, a visitation of the Holy Spirit…an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And the terms are interesting because you see what the people are conscious of is that it is as if something has suddenly come down upon them. The Spirit of God has descended into their midst, God has come down and is amongst them. A baptism, an outpouring, a visitation. And the effect of that is that they immediately become aware of his presence and of his power in a manner that they have never known before. I am talking about Christian people, about church members gathered together as they have done so many times before. Suddenly they are aware of his presence, they are aware of the majesty and the awe of God. The Holy Spirit literally seems to be presiding over the meeting and taking charge of it, and manifesting his power and guiding them, and leading them, and directing them. That is the essence of revival.

If there is any preacher/teacher which i think keeps a good balance with wisdom on this issue, i think it is Jones (from what little i have read). Read more about this departed man of God. here: http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/biographies/a-passion-for-christ-exalting-power (good site also)

And for the best Pentecostal (not the Benny Hinn fluff) preacher i have ever heard, see Bert Clendennen here: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=357

[Cronos]

Interesting -- did verity actually say Sanctimonious every-life-is-precious BS. I know Quix would disagree with this (as would boatbums and other Christian non-Catholics here), but I wonder if metmom; rnmomof7; presently no screen name; dr. eckleburg; uri'el-2012; iscool would consider any pro-abortionist stance as 'on their side' as long as they attack the Church?