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To: Dr. Eckleburg
"Luther and Calvin and anyone with eyes to see could tell true worship from the idolatry practiced in Rome."

Like every other dishonest huckster you choose to change the subject when a collision with the truth would damage your position. The discussion was about the perpetual virginity of Mary, not on your flawed interpretation of idolatry.

I stated that while Luther and Zwingli were adamant about the perpetual virginity of Mary Calvin was conflicted. In Calvin's own words:

"This passage afforded the pretext for great disturbances, which were introduced into the Church, at a former period, by Helvidius. The inference he drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband. Jerome, on the other hand, earnestly and copiously defended Mary’s perpetual virginity. Let us rest satisfied with this, that no just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words of the Evangelist, as to what took place after the birth of Christ."

Calvin was just as non-commital on the issue of the real presence. Although he disagreed with Luther and Zwingli on transubstantiation he never denied the spiritual presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

You can keep your pathetic anti-Catholic websites because the Catholic Church does not practice idolatry, as had been pointed out to you literally hundreds of times on these threads. You appear incapable of learning or modifying your flawed conclusions out of your irrational anti-Catholic hatred. To paraphrase a popular saying "there are none so stupid as those who will not learn".

456 posted on 12/05/2010 12:33:34 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law; Dr. Eckleburg
I stated that while Luther and Zwingli were adamant about the perpetual virginity of Mary Calvin was conflicted.

Unimportant..meaningless... empty conversation...The sexual life of Mary has nothing to do with our salvation..If Mary became a prostitute following the birth of Christ to supplement the family income.. it would not have one thing to do with the Holiness of God, or with the virgin birth of Christ, or with His propitiation and redemption of men..

In short, unless you think Mary has something to do with your eternity it just does not matter.. which may be why Calvin was "conflicted"

461 posted on 12/05/2010 12:45:03 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: Natural Law
Please pay attention to this elementary lesson on Calvin. It will hopefully save you time and trouble in the future.

Believing in the perpetual virginity of Mary MEANS NOTHING. Calvin did not believe Mary was any of the impertinent, anti-Scriptural deification Rome heaps upon the poor woman's head.

Whether she and Josepsh had more children MEANS NOTHING. After Christ was born and raised, Mary fades away. Her job was finished. She had completed the task God had given her. She was simply the earthly vessel through which Christ was born into this life.

God could have birthed Christ in a cabbage patch, if He had wanted to. Instead, He made Christ "a little lower than the angels," who could feel our pain and know our plight, being in every way fully human, like His mother, and fully God, like His Father.

We worship the heavenly Father, not the earthly mother. Rome is stuck in the dirt while life and salvation is above us, through Christ alone.

463 posted on 12/05/2010 12:51:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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