Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: blasater1960
You quote Isaiah 43:10 as a proof text and then THROW OUT it's meaning. You say your god is One...then promptly divide him into three personages.

What "division," Blasater? What? Did you flunk basic math in elementary school?

Do you know how to arrive at say, volume in which involves three components to multiply?

Here's your basic problem: You somehow have been led -- or have embraced -- the faulty viewpoint that Christianity proclaims a 1/3rd + 1/3rd + 1/3rd God= 1 God...and that we "divide" the one God by three.

Even mathematics eminates from who God is, Blasater.

Figure it out: What is 1 x 1 x 1? (Three? No way)

The single personages of God multiplied upon Himself still only = 1.

Do you think that is just mathematical coincidence? Or does it actually make sense that even mathematics is derived the attributes and make-up of who God is!!!

Even if you don't embrace simple mathematics as representative of God's reality, stop falsely representing Christianity. We don't proclaim a "divided" God as mentioned above. We have a multiplied God compared to your "lonely" God pre-angelic creation.

Your god is relationally dependent upon angels and humankind. Our God is the Great I AM God of Exodus 3:14 -- the very Name implies eternally Self-Existent who needs no one -- even for an exchange of love and fellowship.

Who is our Lord speaking of when He says:

1 The LORD says to my lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.” (Psalm 110:1)

Jesus Has the been insight here:
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
“The son of David,” they replied.
43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,
44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.”’
45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
(Matt. 22:44-46)

15 posted on 12/03/2010 8:10:48 PM PST by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies ]


To: Colofornian
the faulty viewpoint that Christianity proclaims a 1/3rd + 1/3rd + 1/3rd

Nope...I know full well what you (the church) teach.

Isaiah 46: To whom would you liken Me And make Me equal and compare Me, That we would be alike?

You make Jesus...G-ds equal...the "holy spirit" equal. G-d says...NOTHING IS HIS EQUAL. You try to make Jesus co-equal, Jesus the man. He is not equal!

Figure it out: What is 1 x 1 x 1? (Three? No way)

Why stop at 3 ones? How about 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 1 x 10^99 ? That is what the mormons do! Your math is worthless. You reducing him to the number 1 and multiplying him is in no way an accurate picture of G-d. It is a desecration of G-d to even TRY to confine Him to a finite physical locality.

If G-d were 3 personages or co-equals...HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO! And done so directly and plainly. G-d does not hide his nature....Christians just cant resist the evil of anthropomorphizing G-d.

We don't proclaim a "divided" God as mentioned above. We have a multiplied God compared to your "lonely" God pre-angelic creation.

Of course you dont proclaim a divided god because you are fooling yourself. Lonely G-d? An infinite G-d with mutiple dimensions at his disposal for eternity is lonely? Says you.

Matt 28...baptizing them in the name of the "Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit",

Notice the use of the conjuction AND. Indicating 3 seperate personages. 1 and 1 and 1 is Three! not one. Hence the "Tri" in trinity! G-d is NEVER lumped together with other personages like that. Jesus prayed to God...praying to himself? Didnt know the time of his own return...God incarnate doesnt know?...Philip 2: Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

1 The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” (Psalm 110:1)

From Rabbi Singer:

Psalm 110 represents one of the New Testament's most stunning, yet clever mistranslations of the Jewish scriptures. Moreover, the confusion created by the Christianization of this verse was further perpetuated and promulgated by numerous Christian translators of the Bible as well. As you will soon see, some Christian translators, to their credit, refrain from rewriting this text in Psalm 110.

The story of the church's tampering with Psalm 110 is so old that it begins in the Christian canon itself. In the Gospels we find the church's first use of Psalm 110, and it begins with a question. In Matthew 22:41-44 Matthew's Jesus turns to the Pharisees and asks them,

What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?

The question in laymen's terms is, "Of whom is the messiah supposed to be a descendant?"

They said to him, "The son of David." He said to them, "How then does David in the spirit call him 'Lord,' saying, 'The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool"?' If David then called him Lord, how is he his son?" No one was able to answer him a word, neither did any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Although the above conversation could never have occurred, I am certain this narrative has been replayed over and over again in the imagination of countless Christians for nearly 1,900 years.

It's an inspiring story to the Christian believer. Jesus really showed those Pharisees how little they knew! Yet, this is precisely why this story could never have transpired. No Jew who had even a superficial knowledge of the Jewish scriptures would have ever found Jesus' argument compelling, let alone a conversation stopper. The depth of knowledge that the Pharisees possessed of Tanach was astounding.

Let's take a closer look at the original verse from which Matthew's Jesus quoted so that you have a sense of how the original Hebrew text was masked. The New American Standard Bible (NASB), one of the most widely read Christian Bibles in use today, translates Psalm 110:1 in the following manner,

The Lord said unto my Lord, "Sit thou on my right hand, till I put thine enemies underneath thy feet."

It appears from the NASB translation that the "Lord," which is God, "said unto to my Lord" -- who missionaries would have you believe is Jesus (David's "Lord") -- "Sit thou on my right hand, till I put thine enemies underneath thy feet."

Is the above verse speaking about Jesus? Not at all, yet look at the first word "Lord" in the verse. Now look at the second word "Lord" (they are only three words apart). Did you notice any difference between them? You didn't because the Christian translator carefully masked what it actually says in the text of the original Hebrew.

Although the two English words in the NASB translation are carefully made to appear identical, in the original Hebrew text they are entirely different. Whereas the first word "Lord" in the Hebrew is a correct translation of ,1, which is the Tetragrammaton (YHWH), the ineffable name of God, the second word "Lord" is a complete and deliberate mistranslation of the text. The second word "Lord" in the verse is an appalling translation of the Hebrew word (pronounced ladonee). The correct translation of ladonee is "to my master" or "to my lord." The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is only used for the profane, never the sacred. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.

To illustrate this, let's look for a completely different place in the Bible where the exact same Hebrew word appears and find out how the same New American Standard Bible translates it there.

For example, we find the same word, (ladonee), used in the following two verses which have been translated by the same New American Standard Bible where the identical word is used as in Psalm 110:

Then he and the men who were with him ate and drank and spent the night. When they arose in the morning, he said, "Send me away to my master (ladonee: )." (Genesis 24:54, New American Standard Bible)

He also commanded them saying, "Thus you shall say to my lord (ladonee: ) Esau, 'Thus says your servant Jacob, "I have sojourned with Laban, and stayed until now." ' " (Genesis 32:4, New American Standard Bible)

The Hebrew word ladonee used in the above two verses is referring to Abraham and Esau, respectively. Notice that the Hebrew word used in both verses is identical to the Hebrew word in Psalm 110:1. Why did the New American Standard Bible translate ladonee correctly in Genesis 24:54 as "to my master," or in Genesis 32:4 as "to my lord," yet, for some reason, in Psalm 110:1 mistranslate it as "Lord"?

The answer is obvious. Both Genesis 24:54 and Genesis 32:4 are not texts used by the church to "prove" Jesus from the Jewish scriptures and therefore they had no reason to tamper with them. Psalm 110:1, on the other hand, is a verse that is flaunted by the New Testament and its missionaries as a verse that evangelicals insist "unquestionably points only to Jesus," and it therefore was deliberately mistranslated.

Some Christian translations are more transparent in their rendering of Psalm 110 than the New American Standard Bible. For example, the King James Version and a few other Bibles still render the second "Lord" as if it were sacred; however, they translate the first "LORD" in upper case. This is a helpful hint to the keen observer that there is a distinction between them. Of course, it's up to the curious Bible student to then look up the second "Lord" in a Hebrew Bible. Only such a deliberate and thorough investigation would uncover how the text was doctored.

It should be noted that while many Christian translators indulge in this manipulation of Psalm 110:1, some do not. Numerous modern Christian Bibles have corrected Matthew's mistranslation. For example, the Revised Standard Version and the New English Bible correctly render the Hebrew word ladonee as " to my lord," in Psalm 110:1, indicating that it is not speaking of God.

As mentioned above, this tampering with Psalm 110:1 began long ago in the Christian Bible itself. The Christian translators, who would later also mistranslate this verse, simply followed in the footsteps of the author of the first Gospel. If we look at the original Greek of Matthew 22:44 we find the same doctoring of the text in later Christian translations of the Book of Psalms. When Matthew has Jesus quote Psalm 110:1 to the Pharisees, the identical Greek word kurios2 (pronounced koo-re-os) is used both times the word "Lord" appears in Matthew 22:44.

Finally, it is essential that I explain the meaning of Psalm 110:1. Of whom is this Psalm really speaking? To whom are the words "my master" or "my lord" referring?

The Psalm begins with the opening Hebrew words "Mizmor l'David." The word "Mizmor" means "a song," and thus the opening phrase of this Psalm is, "A Song of David." In fact, the word Psalms comes from the Greek word psalmos, which means "a song." This is unknown to many Bible readers.

Why would King David be writing these songs? For whom was he writing them? By whom were they to be sung? With these questions in mind, we can begin to understand the intent of Psalm 110.

One of the great disappointments in King David's illustrious life occurred when God refused his request to build the first Temple in Jerusalem. Although David's son Solomon undertook that task and eventually constructed the first Temple, David's connection to it was significant.

For example, David founded the city of Jerusalem, the city where the Temple was built. In fact, both the city and the Temple were called after him, the City and Temple of David. Moreover, he made preparations for the building of the Temple, and even arranged for the Temple service (II Samuel 7; I Chronicles 14-17, 22-26). This is where the Book of Psalms played its central role. King David was a faithful servant of God who possessed extraordinary skills as a teacher, musician, and poet. In fact, King David authored most of the Book of Psalms. The original purpose for which King David composed the Book of Psalms was for the Levites to sing them in the Temple. The Levites would stand on a platform and joyfully chant these spiritually exhilarating Psalms to an inspired people. King David composed Psalm 110 for liturgical recitation by the Levites in the Temple years after his death. Therefore, the Levites would read this lyric,

The Lord [God] said to my master [King David] "Sit thou at my right hand . . . ."

For the church, however, the Psalmist's original intent was superseded by its interest in Christianizing this verse. Thus, the opening verse in Psalm 110 was altered in order to paint Jesus into the Jewish scriptures.

Here is some advice. The only way to recognize such rampant Christian tampering of the Bible is to be able to read it in the original, without the aid of the Christian translator.

Isaiah 46: To whom would you liken Me

And make Me equal and compare Me

, That we would be alike?

NO ONE>>>>STOP TRYING TO TELL G-D>>>>>THAT HE IS THREE PERSONAGES!!!

21 posted on 12/03/2010 11:57:52 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson