Third Secret of Fatima and Russia

In her memoirs, Lucia writes of a warning spoken by Mary pertaining to the failure of Vatican officials to obey her requests in a timely manner...before the point Russia reeks havoc upon the world: "Later...Our Lady said to me, complaining: "Not wishing to attend to my request! Like the King of France, they will repent then make it happen, but it will be (done) late. Russia will have already spread it's errors through the world, provoking wars, and persecutions of the Church: The Pope will have much to suffer." (in Portuguese: Mais tarde...Nossa Senhora disse-me, queixando-se: Não quiseram atender ao Meu pedido! Como o rei de França, arrepender-se-ão e fá-la-ão, mas será tarde. A Rússia terá já espalhado os seus erros pelo mundo, mundo, provocando guerras, perseguições à igreja: O Santo Padre terá muito que sofrer)

The word "repent" was translated from the Portuguese "arrepender-se-ão" also meaning "to regret/be sorry for" (http://dictionary.reverso.net/portuguese-english/arrepender ).

Through Lucia, Mary made two requests of the Church: 1) publicly consecrate Russia to Mary's heart. 2)open the Third Secret to the world in 1960.

In 1980, during a trip to Fulda Germany, Pope John Paul II made remarks about the Third Secret. He stated that: "my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves."

We already know that the Fatima prophecies speak precisely about Russia and more particularly "Russia's errors" rather than "communism." Thus in all likelihood JPII is referring to the then communist superpower RUSSIA when using the broader term "world power of communism."

For the Vatican to withhold publication of the Third Secret for decades due to fear of the Russians/Communists reacting with "certain moves" indicates that those "certain moves" are significant and grave. For instance the Third Secret may contain provocative words that infuriate Russia into a vengeful military attack against the Vatican.

A third secret element that would definitely infuriate Russia would be something along the lines of a prophecy that states: the leader of Russia at the time of the chastisement is possessed by demons from hell!

During the Vatican's release of the "vision" portion of the Third Secret in June 26, 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger(now the Pope) wrote for the commentary: "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The THIRD PART of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”

Ratzinger's words in June 2000 explicitly reveals that the Third Secret vision pertains to RUSSIA'S errors "causing wars and persecutions of the Church".

Therefore in order for a FUTURE fulfillment of the Third Secret of Fatima that involves a violent religious persecution and a Pope killed by soldiers...RUSSIA must in the FUTURE, become politically transformed into the tool that serves as the primary cause that brings about the period of religious persecution prophesied by the Fatima Prophecies. It is Russia that God uses to punish the world with war and persecution, suffering of the Pope, and annihilation.

If the Vatican considered there was even a 1% chance the Fatima Prophecy were a divine message from God, despite the conspiracy to hide the existence of the "words" of the Third Secret in June 2000, they would have certainly taken precaution against God's wrath by hedging their bet and actually reveal the gist of the Secret albeit less directly. Which they did in the commentary when Ratzinger included that quote attributed to the seer(Lucia), once again being: "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The THIRD PART of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”

So the real secret is that the Third portion of the Secret and the Second portion are actually two parts of one single unified secret. The reference to world war I and world war II in the second secret would be brief mentions of the two wars that would precede a separate Russian driven chastisement. Previous events regarding Russia and world war II would be shadows of future events to come.

Malachi Martin, Secretary of high ranking Cardinal Bea, was shown the Third Secret in the 1960's.

Eight years before Ratzinger's June 2000 commentary, in Malachi Martin's 1992 book "The Keys of this Blood" (pg630-631), he indicated the role of Russia with the comments :

i)"Russia, according to the text of the 'Third Secret,' was the regulator of the timetable."

ii)"Lucia's single-page written formulation of the "Third Secret" covers three main topics. (1) A Physical chastisement of the nations...(2) A spiritual chastisement...(3) A central function of Russia in the two ...(which)..In fact, the physical and spiritual chastisements, according to Lucia's letter, are to be gridded on a fateful timetable in which Russia is the ratchet."

Long before Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the June 2000 commentary, the Cardinal released a book containing an interview given by him to Vittorio Messori which included some questions about the Third Secret. The interview occurred in the mid 1980's.

-"Cardinal Ratzinger, have you read the so-called 'third secret of Fatima'...?" -The reply is immediate and dry: "Yes, I have read it."

At the end of the question's pertaining to the Third Secret, after Ratzinger states "to publish the 'third secret' would mean exposing the Church to the danger of sensationalism" Vittorio Messori then writes: "that Perhaps also political implications, I venture, since it seems that here, also, as in the two other "secrets," Russia is mentioned? At this point however, the Cardinal declares that he is not in a position to go further into the matter and firmly refuses to discuss particulars."

-Cardinal Ratzinger's reaction to the mention of the word "Russia" in the context of the Third Secret demonstrates Vittorio's question hit a nerve. if Russia was NOT mentioned in the Secret, Ratzinger would have no need to react as such. His reaction seemed to indicate at that time that he was instructed in 1984 not to reveal that Russia was part of the Secret and not to falsely deny that Russia was part of the Secret. That would explain Ratzinger's choice to evade the subject at the mere mention of Russia.

For his 1947 book "Our Lady of Fatima" author William Thomas Walsh interviewed Sister Lucia in 1946 --a year she was not yet forbidden to give interviews.

"she said more than once and with deliberate emphasis: "What Our Lady wants is that the Pope and all the bishops in the world shall consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart on one special day. If this is done, She will convert Russia and there will be peace. If it is not done, the errors of Russia will spread through every country in the world.' " "Does this mean, in your opinion, that every country, without exception, will be overcome by Communism?" "Yes."(replied Lucia)."

Mary told Lucia that Russia's "errors" will spread to every country of the world, but in the 1940's to 1990 pretty much every believer in the world including Sister Lucia herself, would have assumed that Russia's errors were equatable with communism.

I would consider "Russia's errors" to be the tactics of a yet to arrive Russian Hitler that would rebuild the ego and glory of the Russian empire at the expense of the weak. These Russian errors could/would include such things as persecuting religious minorities at the behest of the majority, the blackmail of weaker nations, persecution of every kind of minority, declaring might as right/war to achieve all the needs of the state(attaining food, wealth, gas, slaves etc,) or something. Russia's tactics/errors that would spread to every country would be for egoism, diversion of attention, and ultimately to pacify the voting public during times of economic collapse, hunger, and chaos. The future Russia, possibly led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky, may echo some of the ways of the former communists, but it's behavior would be more extreme and frightening.

If divine forces are responsible for the Apparitions of Mary to Portugal in 1917, it is clear in context, that the major reason the year 1917 was selected for the Apparition to arrive was for the reason that Vladimir Lenin and the anti-religious Communists forced their way into power to take control of Russia less than one month after the Miracle of the Sun/Final Apparition.

Thus the Apparitions in the year 1917 establishes a connection between the Fatima Prophecies to a present and future transformation of Russia into a godless religious persecuting state.

From there, Mary indicates that even though she knows the Church officials will refuse to obey her requests thus dooming itself, she provides the remedy for world peace:

Her remedy given to the Church requires that the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world in a public event "Consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart."

"If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church."

The request to Consecrate Russia appears as a simple test of faith imposed by Heaven to show faith in God's messenger and God...by forcing the Vatican to choose whether to risk some worldly interests for the sake of spiritual interests.

With the anti-religious communists in power in Russia, the request to consecrate Russia with the world watching, forces the Vatican to risk irritating and provoking the Soviet Union.

Releasing the WORDS of the Third Secret poses a significantly bigger threat to the Vatican's worldly interests. It's a bigger test of Faith. Not only does it's publication risk infuriating Russia, it risks making the Vatican lose substantial credibility if the dated prophecies seem to fail to materialize.

The noose seems to tighten even further around the Vatican's neck. Setting the stage for an extremely bad outcome when the moment of belief is finally reached. By having lied about the Third Secret in the year 2000, lied about Lucia's words in the year 2000, and lying in a book about the subject released in 2007(The Last Secret of Fatima-Cardinal Bertone)--as the abhorrent sexual scandal in the Church reaches it's climactic point in the future--the Vatican would be compelled to finally release the suppressed words of the Third Secret once the events have arrived and there is no longer doubt...but in doing so, the Vatican will have revealed to the entire world that it lied to protect it's earthly interests over Fatima thus appearing to much of the world that it is equally guilty of lying to protect it's skin in the explosively shocking sex scandal near the top of the Church that would have revealed itself at that time.

So...in order for the Pope to finally obey God and release the Third Secret, the cost in the end will be epic. It would be seen as a declaration of guilt over the future sex scandal, risking opening a floodgate of litigation that would impoverish the church coffers. It could doom someone very close to the Pope, Cardinal and friend, to prison. It would be seen as an abhorrent tactic to divert attention away from the sex scandal. It would be perceived as an abhorrent tactic to terrify everyone back to the Church at a desperate moment in time. It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican.

You still continue to dodge my point regarding the errors of Russia.

Since the errors of Athiestic Communism are no longer an issue in Russia, you want to dismiss that and attribute some other error or errors to keep your conspiracy theory alive. The litany of sins you listed and then stated The errors of Russia are still there is ridiculous. Those sins did not originate in Russia and are not Russia’s errors.

The Consecration of Russia is complete. Time to move on.

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude. I’d prefer to follow the advice of St. Padre Pio

“Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer...Prayer is the best weapon we have; it is the key to God's heart. You must speak to Jesus with not only your lips but with your heart. In fact on certain occasions you should speak to Him only with your heart...”

For anyone that wants to know about Fatima, should read the 3 volume set by Frere Michel De La Sainte Trinite:

Just can’t let go can you? These writings were published in the 1980’s. In fact, there’s a disclaimer on the home page that states “ all references to the Third Secret in these volumes should be interpreted within this pre-revelational context.”

I’ll take the word of JPII and Pope Benedict XVI that the secret has been revealed and the Consecration to Russia is complete.

I’m a Catholic father of 5 children 8 and under, so far.

Wonderful! God Bless you and your family.

re: You still continue to dodge my point regarding the errors of Russia. Since the errors of Atheistic Communism are no longer an issue in Russia, you want to dismiss that and attribute some other error or errors to keep your conspiracy theory alive.

I made it quite clear that the "errors of Russia", spoken by Our Blessed Mother to the seer Lucia, were spiritual, were about the eternal loss of souls. If you read the three volumes I recommended , you would know this. This is a basic Catholic mindset ("What does it profit a man to gain the world and loose his soul?"). I told point blank that you are dead wrong in your strictly earthly analysis.

Besides, YOUR "errors of Russia" analysis is wrong in the earthly sense too, since atheistic communism still exists in China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and is quickly taking over South America at this moment, Bolivia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Chile etc.

The whole foundation of your edifice of analysis is founded on the so-called "fall of communism" in Russia in the late 80's. From there you "weave it" into the INCOMPLETE consecration by JPII in 1984, in which he neither mentioned Russia, nor did it in union with the bishops.

AND YET: for 34 years before that "consecration" of the world, everyone knew from Lucia the seer of Fatima that consecration of Russia and the world done by Pius XII in the late 40's and early 50's (which at least mentioned Russia), were incomplete, not done as asked by the Blessed Mother. Now, since JPII's "consecrations" neither mentioned Russia nor were done in union with the bishops, in other words, they were EVEN LESS THAN WHAT PIUS XII HAD DONE, I ask you: what on earth would possess anyone to think that JPII's consecrations were satisfactory?

- The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery. Besides, if it isn't, then Lucia is either a schizophrenic or got Alzheimer's. FROM 1917 to 1984 for Lucia the consecration required the specific consecration of Russia by the pope in union with all the bishops. Then from 1984 forward it didn't require either? That letter is a forgery to discredit the message.

Where is the period of peace? Portugal was consecrated as asked by the Blessed Mother, and it had a period of peace of over 40 years, avoiding the savage Spanish Civil War (AT IT'S VER BORDER!)and all of WWII. After the consecration, Portuguese government miraculously turned from a masonic anti clerical to a great Catholic government. The last Catholic government on earth till it fell after Vatican II.

Where are the elimination of the errors of Russia, spiritual or earthly? Only a dreamer with his head in the sand or a useful idiot could think that both are gone.

By the way, in addition to being a father of 5, I am also a person who lost his country to communism and it still remains communist to this day. where is the fall of that earthly error of Russia?

I repeat again:

Pope Pius XII consecrated Russia in like 1950, BUT, not in union with the bishops. Pope JPII did it twice, but never specifically named Russia, nor did he do it in union with the bishops.

We have the record of the seer Lucia stating that the consecration by Pius XII was incomplete because he did not do it in union with the bishops AND YET HE SPECIFICALLY CONSECRATED RUSSIA. The only two things that could make anyone think that the JPII consecrations (WHICH LACK BOTH the union of the bishops in the consecration AND THE MENTION OF RUSSIA) were complete, would be ignorance of the past consecrations by Pius XII (which at least mentioned Russia) or that the people saying that the consecrations were done are enemies of the Church.

The consecrations have not been done, those that teach otherwise are either ignorant of the subject matter, or enemies of the Church, whether they are wolves in sheep's clothing (Catholic clergy) or wolves.

The errors of Russia are still there, and have spread all over the world: abortion, contraceptives, divorce, women behaving as men (not having children and competing for men's jobs), breakup of the family, children raised by the state, Immorality, fornication, adultery,pornography drugs & alcohol abuse, and sports/circus to keep the masses numbed. The USA is already poisoned by the errors of Russia, the USA is actually today the biggest promoter of the errors of Russia.

Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

re:

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude. -------------------------------------------

Nothing fatalistic in what all those saints wrote. Those quotes span like 1900 years of Christianity. All the saints taught the same. By your reaction of calling all those saints (Catholic teaching for 2000 years)"fatalistic" , I gather that you must be a woman, brought up in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have "pleasant thoughts".

I am a man, a warrior knight, not affraid of death, and I try to live by the teaching: "Remember the end of your life, and then you will never sin" (Wis. Sir. 7,36). "

Remember the end of your life, and then you will never sin. I shall not write again on FR.

God Bless,

The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

I gather that you must be a woman

I gather you’re a male chauvinist who specializes in erroneous speculations. I’m a husband, father and grandfather

brought up in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have "pleasant thoughts".

Is this one of your standard talking points or did you post this because you thought I was a woman?

I am a man, a warrior knight, not affraid of death, and I try to live by the teaching:

Same here.

I shall not write again on FR.

As you wish. Good day.

re: The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory". You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

Despite of people like you, blind and ignorant of truth, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite people like you, the truth of Fatima continues. The SSPX recently sent a 2.3 million rosary bouquet in their request to Pope Benedict XVI to finally consecrate Russia as requested by Our Lady. There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII. Despite the cries of the enemies of the Church, Russia will one day be properly consecrated, there is nothing that the devil himself can do to stop it. The pope will one day consecrate Russia, and then THE WORLD will see what a real conversion, and a real period of peace are. Till then, if you so choose, you can remain with your head in the sand.

re: The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of my posted proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory". You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory".

Sorry, you’re under the mistaken impression I consider anything you posted as a proof. As I mentioned, I’m not buying it.

You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

I believe you’ve got that backwards

Despite of people like you, blind and ignorant of truth, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite people like you, the truth of Fatima continues.

Yes, the truth of Fatima has been revealed and does continue. The secret was revealed and the Consecration took place as Our Lady instructed.

The SSPX recently sent a 2.3 million rosary bouquet in their request to Pope Benedict XVI to finally consecrate Russia as requested by Our Lady.

A bit late but it seems like a nice thing to do. They should have sent the rosary bouquet to Pope John II in 1984 thanking him for the consecration

There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII.

As I thought, you’re a Mel Gibson type Catholic. That explains your male chauvinism and short fuse.

Despite the cries of the enemies of the Church, Russia will one day be properly consecrated, there is nothing that the devil himself can do to stop it.

The devil did try to stop it and failed.

The pope will one day consecrate Russia, and then THE WORLD will see what a real conversion, and a real period of peace are.

It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s timeline, not yours.

Till then, if you so choose, you can remain with your head in the sand.

Nah, I keep up with what’s going on. You however, can return to your bunker. I thought you weren’t going to write again on FR

re:There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII.

As I thought, you’re a Mel Gibson type Catholic.

No, you don't think, you are prejudiced, you prejudge the message of Fatima into your own small nothing event, and you prejudge Traditionalists. You are nothing, but a cliche parrot, a small mind, with nothing to contribute to a discussion.

Now you label me as "a bunker living Mel Gibson Catholic". Whatever!

Traditionalist are the Catholics that go to frequent confession, don't use birth control, are not divorced and re-married. The traditionalist are the real Catholics, the people that go to the Latin mass, attended by diocene priests, the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, Soc. of St John Vianney, AND the SSPX, and all independents, AND even the Sedevacantes ( I have nothing against them), who think the current popes are not popes. Numbered among the traditionalists, are all the people who still attend the Novus Ordo because they have no choice, or know no better. Traditionalists are ALL the Catholics who abhor communion in the hand, Eucharistic ministers, laity hugging kiss of peace, and all the other sacriligious and banal activity in the Novus Ordo world. All of those real Catholics do not believe Russia has been consecrated.

People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia. It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years. People like you should put your body where your mouth is and move to those "paradises of your conversion of Russia" like Cuba, Russia, or China, to name a few.

You are nothing, but a cliche parrot, a small mind, with nothing to contribute to a discussion.

Feel better?

All of those real Catholics do not believe Russia has been consecrated.

If you say so

People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia.

Don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was “It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s timeline, not yours.

It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years.

Did I mention you specialize in erroneous speculations?

People like you should put your body where your mouth is and move to those "paradises of your conversion of Russia" like Cuba, Russia, or China, to name a few.

People like you need to pay attention to detail and stop attributing comments to someone who didn’t make them. It would also be helpful if you would contemplate the advice given by St. Padre Pio before you blow a gasket.

re: People like you need to pay attention to detail and stop attributing comments to someone who didn’t make them. It would also be helpful if you would contemplate the advice given by St. Padre Pio before you blow a gasket.

The difference between you and I is that when you say something, I read it, and think on it. While you ignore completely whatever anyone writes, as your mind is already made up. If you had read the saints quotes that I sent you, you would realize that we are living in desperate times as most people are going to hell.

“Pray, hope, and don’t worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer...Prayer is the best weapon we have; it is the key to God’s heart. You must speak to Jesus with not only your lips but with your heart. In fact on certain occasions you should speak to Him only with your heart...” (Padre Pio)

What Padre Pio wrote has nothing to do with our discussion on Fatima. I’m not “worried”. You call the 1900 years of saints quotes “fatalistic”, and you quote Padre Pio as if he’s saying “don’t worry be happy”. Worry, in the sense that Padre Pio is saying, is called despair, which is a sin against hope. However, in the sense that you take it, “the saints were fatalistic” (you said it!), and for you we have to not let anything disturb our sleep through life (like the 1960’s hippies, “smoke a joint man, and it’’l pass, peace, man”.

Fatalism and despair are not occuring on my side, they have nothing to do with anything I write. If an atomic bomb was dropped on my head tomorrow, I could care less, God knows what is best for me, and if He so chooses to take me, so be it.

re: People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia. It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years.

Don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was “It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s time line, not yours.

The consecration has not been performed as requested by Our Lady. If Pius XII did not do it in 1948 by specifically mentioning Russia, then logically JPII did not do it by his not even mentioning Russia.

Read scripture about Gedeon (really read the whole thing, not just what I give you).

17 Judges 7:2 And the Lord said to Gedeon: The people that are with thee are many, and Madian shall not be delivered into their hands: lest Israel should glory against me, and say: I was delivered by my own strength.

Read Gedeon and you will understand how God works his miracles. God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred. The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984. That is why He asked through the Blessed Mother that the consecration be done in union with all the bishops, and that the object of the consecration be ONLY Russia. The consecration must be in the open, that is why all the bishops. It will be controversial, for EVERYONE to likely ridicule. No one will be able to deny that it was done. No one then will be able to hide the connection with the miracle of the conversion, it will be instant, like Gedeon's victory. God did not waste the greatest miracle in the history of mankind, Fatima, for no one to notice.

What Padre Pio wrote has nothing to do with our discussion on Fatima.

OK. So we can only use your quotes. Got it.

You call the 1900 years of saints quotes “fatalistic”,

There you go putting words in my mouth again. What I said was I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude.

and you quote Padre Pio as if he’s saying “don’t worry be happy”. Worry, in the sense that Padre Pio is saying, is called despair, which is a sin against hope.

There you go speculating again. I quoted Padre Pio in the sense If you remain in a state of grace and have an active prayer life, the troubles of the world wouldn’t worry you so much. As a matter of fact, if everybody took this advice to heart and acted on it, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is the difference betweeen my outlook and yours.

However, in the sense that you take it, “the saints were fatalistic” (you said it!),

You need to stop speculating, I did not say that, I said you were.

and for you we have to not let anything disturb our sleep through life (like the 1960’s hippies, “smoke a joint man, and it’’l pass, peace, man”.

Your mind reading skills are terrible

God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred. The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984.

Is this an infallible pronouncement or just your opinion?

God did not waste the greatest miracle in the history of mankind, Fatima, for no one to notice.

I never said the miracle was wasted nor did I say no one will notice. God works in mysterious ways. You act as if you wrote the script.

Did you read Gedeon in scripture?

Yes. Fascinating story, read it last night. However , why do you think I don’t understand how God works his miracles? Or more to your point that God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred.. The Miracle of the Sun was witnessed by thousands and widely reported in the press. That’s a pretty clear sign that God would provide a miracle "so that all may believe."

You think the consecration of Russia is going to provide another immediate miracle . You said, The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984.

It has already been pointed out on this thread that since the consecration in 1984 there have been a series of events that would confirm what Sr. Lucia wrote. The consecration has been accomplished and God will keep His word.

The errors of Russia will not go away overnight. As I mentioned, this will be accomplished in God’s time, not yours. As an example of God’s time I’ll point out the second apparition which took place on June 13, 1917

In the second apparition Lucia asked the Lady, "Will you take us to heaven?" The Virgin responded,

"Yes, I shall take Jacinta and Francisco soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart."

That “little longer“ turned out to be 88 years. You need to be more patient my friend. God is in control, not you.

In the second apparition Lucia asked the Lady, "Will you take us to heaven?" The Virgin responded, "Yes, I shall take Jacinta and Francisco soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart." That “little longer“ turned out to be 88 years. You need to be more patient my friend. God is in control, not you.

You are changing Mary's words!! She did NOT say "little longer." Where did you fetch that quote?

Mary in fact responded with the words "Sim; a Jacinta e o Francisco levo-os em breve. Mas tu ficas cá mais algum tempo."(Yes. I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer.)

The Portuguese word "algum" does not translate to "little."

The word algum is used "to indicate an unspecified number or quantity" or "relatively many but unspecified in number"...see for yourself here at a Portuguese-English dictionary: http://lookwayup.com/lwu.exe/lwu/toEng?s=d&w=algum&slang=Por

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