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To: Dr. Brian Kopp; FormerLib

“I just didn’t know it had devolved this far in the Orthodox realm regarding moral theology and justification for that which simply cannot be justified from Scripture or Tradition..”

Here’s the problem, Doc. You have no idea what the Eastern tradition on bioethics is or has been. You are a product of a church whose theology is thoroughly Augustinian and Thomist. Ours isn’t. You theology, from where we sit, is legalistic. Ours is theraputic. We view the Church as a hospital for sick souls and Christ as the “Physician of our Souls and Bodies”. There are reasons, apparently acceptable, for a spiritual father to allow his spiritual children, within marriage, to use certain types of contraception because he feels it better spiritually for them to use birth control than not, because it is a role of a spiritual father to, as we pray in the Divine Liturgy of +Basil the Great, to maintain “the marriage bond in peace and concord.” It’s that simple. Now, a number of Orthodox theologians have written recently on this question, usually in the context of a bioethical discussion. Here’s snip from what Fr. Stanley Harakas has written:

“Fertility control, or contraception, is the practice by which mechanical, chemical, or other means are used, either before or after a sexual act, in order to prevent fertilization of the ovum by the sperm, thus circumventing the possible consequences of the sexual act - the conception and ultimate birth of a child.

General agreement exists among Orthodox writers on the following two points:

1.
since at least one of the purposes of marriage is the birth of children, a couple acts immorally when it consistently uses contraceptive methods to avoid the birth of any children, if there are not extenuating circumstances;
2.
contraception is also immoral when used to encourage the practice of fornication and adultery.

Less agreement exists among Eastern Orthodox authors on the issue of contraception within marriage for the spacing of children or for the limitation of the number of children. Some authors take a negative view and count any use of contraceptive methods within or outside of marriage as immoral (Papacostas, pp. 13-18; Gabriel Dionysiatou). These authors tend to emphasize as the primary and almost exclusive purpose of marriage the birth of children and their upbringing. They tend to consider any other exercise of the sexual function as the submission of this holy act to unworthy purposes, i.e., pleasure-seeking, passion, and bodily gratification, which are held to be inappropriate for the Christian growing in spiritual perfection. These teachers hold that the only alternative is sexual abstinence in marriage, which, though difficult, is both desirable and possible through the aid of the grace of God. It must be noted also that, for these writers, abortion and contraception are closely tied together, and often little or no distinction is made between the two. Further, it is hard to discern in their writings any difference in judgment between those who use contraceptive methods so as to have no children and those who use them to space and limit the number of children.

Other Orthodox writers have challenged this view by seriously questioning the Orthodoxy of the exclusive and all-controlling role of the procreative purpose of marriage (Zaphiris; Constantelos, 1975). Some note the inconsistency of the advocacy of sexual continence in marriage with the scriptural teaching that one of the purposes of marriage is to permit the ethical fulfillment of sexual drives, so as to avoid fornication and adultery (1 Cor. 7:1-7). Most authors, however, emphasize the sacramental nature of marriage and its place within the framework of Christian anthropology, seeing the sexual relationship of husband and wife as one aspect of the mutual growth of the couple in love and unity. This approach readily adapts itself to an ethical position that would not only permit but also enjoin sexual relationships of husband and wife for their own sake as expressions of mutual love. Such a view clearly would support the use of contraceptive practices for the purpose of spacing and limiting children so as to permit greater freedom of the couple in the expression of their mutual love.” For the Health of Body and Soul: An Eastern Orthodox Introduction to Bioethics

Now, you say your “esteem” for Orthodoxy has been “gutted”. Well, as I said, it’s a good thing you never converted...likely for us too. Do tell me, though, Doc, it is fair for us, is it not, to be disgusted to the point of vomiting every time we see one of your priests handing out communion, with the full knowledge of their bishops, to active “out” homosexuals and heterosexual persons living together in sin, parading their illegitimate children and their scandal down the aisle for communion for all to see? Is it OK for the latter pair because they clearly didn’t use birth control during their illicit coupling? Is their scandal to the Faithful overcome by their shining example of fecundity? Orthodox priests, with the permission of their bishops, may apply economia in the application of the canons. This is an ancient practice. When you find the “Natural Law” justification for profanation of the Eucharist, however, let all of us know.


119 posted on 12/01/2010 4:33:55 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

Thank you. This was the kind of response I had been hoping to see on this thread, an honest admission that there are strong differences of opinion among the Orthodox on this subject, and a reasonable explanation of the current Orthodox position and why it deviates from the historical Orthodox position.

A little less snark and a lot more honestly and humility goes a long way towards establishing the groundwork of TRUE ecumenism (as opposed to that evil false kind we’ve been force-fed for years since VII) between us.

I am in training to be a deacon. I will be dealing with mixed Catholic-Orthodox couples. I need to know the real reasons for these issues from the Orthodox perspective. My interest in this subject is pastoral now, not academic.


120 posted on 12/01/2010 6:58:34 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM (Liberalism is infecund.)
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To: Kolokotronis
When you find the “Natural Law” justification for profanation of the Eucharist, however, let all of us know.

I've been working for years to have bishops apply Canon 915. I was the co-author of this petition: PETITION TO EX-COMMUNICATE PRO-ABORTION CATHOLIC ELECTED OFFICIALS (FR thread.)

I'm currently working with a group associated with Cardinal Burke and his efforts to get the Church to apply Canon 915.

I assure you, the disgust of our Orthodox brethren at this malfeasance is nothing in comparison with those of us in the trenches fighting this battle.

121 posted on 12/01/2010 6:59:20 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM (Liberalism is infecund.)
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To: Kolokotronis
You have no idea what the Eastern tradition on bioethics is or has been.

On the contrary, the historical record is available for those willing to dig, though modern Orthodox don't seem to be very keen in honestly discussing it.

I know that up till 1970, Orthodoxy uniformly condemned all contraception as illicit. Sometime after 1970, some people in Orthodoxy decided to permit some forms of contraception some of the time. Just like the Anglicans did in 1930.

Frankly, those defending the Orthodox position on this thread appear to be the least informed on the historical Orthodox opinion regarding contraception.

Either that, or they are deliberately being disingenuous because they know its difficult at best to defend this recent innovation.

122 posted on 12/01/2010 8:54:48 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM (Liberalism is infecund.)
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