Harry Potter is Dangerous for Both You and Your Children

Just checked Amazon although I hate them if they are going to sell pedophilia manuals now!!

The old copies I had (I had at least three) had a photo of a woman with a large elaborate bun on her head; probably printed in the late 60s. I see they’ve reprinted it. Here are two links:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Talents-Cookbook-Rosalie-Hurd/dp/0615255973

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=ten+talents+cookbook&index=aps&hvadid=1154018741&ref=pd_sl_9g0csa6pp5_b

Because it’s written by 7th Day Adventists, they have odd restrictions like no cinnamon, chocolate and some other things. But it’s easy to add or improvise of course.

I wish I still had one!
Hmm, this link has some used ones cheaper.

Ho ho ho...

Beware the coal and flying hoofs Duke, beware!

“It’s a fricken fiction book!!”

I can’t tell you how many adults have argued points in “The Da Vinci Code” as though they were fact, and nothing (even the author being forced to admit it was fiction, which he did) will change their mind. They probably think another albino monk got to the author...

“Lord of the Rings is worse as it promotes communism...../sarc”

Lord of the Rings is great; in how many movies are you actually allowed to kill the bad guys anymore? (no sarcasm)

: )

“You’re braver than me, using that name for The-Kenyan-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.”

It is a word never spoken outside of Mordor...

: )

The only opinion that matters is that of the premier book/film critic, Eric Cartman of South Park (a Lord of the Rings fan); his take on HP fans? “Fags”

It was forbidden for a time to say that our foreign policy was anti Christian at best.

>>Yes, and the Pontifical Council on Culture has as its specialty is not film or book reviews<<

Please go back and read through the interviews. Mgsr Fleetwood is not some random priest.

Pontifical Council on Culture are experts on New Age/cults. It states that in the Vatican link I posted. Peter Fleetwood declared HP not new age AT a New Age conference. It can’t be any plainer. He also took the time to explain in detail to another author of an Anti-HP book WHY this is so. Comparing literature to New Age practices? Yes, he is an expert.

This is a slippery slope and those that disregard the Vatican to follow other priests homilies from 2001! or an Author selling books, are simply looking to prove a point. One can see the same rational over on the Religion Forum against us.

>>Because IMO he doesn’t know anything about “film.” <<

Did you know that the Harry Potter series are books?

>>Dear ladies, this sounds like a consensus: each Catholic may decide for himself and his family. What else is there to say?<<

It says that Catholics are wacky and will be used against us and our crazy ideas one day. I’m tired of it and at least I’ve given it the old college try.

It is a word never spoken outside of Mordor...

ObamaCare to rule them all
ObamaCare to find them
ObamaCare to bring them all
And in left's darkness bind them.
In the land of ObamaCare, where the shadows lie

Did you know that the Harry Potter series are books?
It was a little play on words with my prior Kodak analogy. And I think movies are still referred to as film. "Film is in the can" sort of thing.

Such diligence makes me feel a dreadful sluggard, at this early hour ...

More coffee ...

(but you’re right)

Dear netmilsmom,

“Mgsr Fleetwood is not some random priest.”

I never said he was. It was YOU who characterized the chief exorcist of Rome as “some random priest,” and it was I who said he wasn't. I made no comment on Msgr. Fleetwood in that regard.

“Please go back and read through the interviews.”

That's just it - it was an interview, not a solemn, written pronouncement. You're elevating the remarks made in an interview into authoritative teaching.

“Pontifical Council on Culture are experts on New Age/cults. It states that in the Vatican link I posted.”

I looked at your link, which is merely a title page with a list of documents related to the council. I see nothing that says that these folks are the experts on New Age stuff or cults.

On the other hand, I went to the actual page laying out the raison d’etre for the council. Here it is:

1. The Council’s Aims and Tasks

A. - The Pontifical Council for Culture is that department (Dicastery) of the Roman Curia which assists the Pontiff in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the benefit and service of the universal Church and of particular Churches concerning the encounter between the saving message of the Gospel and cultures, in the study of the weighty phenomena of: the rift between the Gospel and cultures; indifference in matters of religion; unbelief. It is also concerned with relationships between the Church and the Holy See and the world of culture; in particular it promotes dialogue with contemporary cultures, so that human civilisation may become increasingly open to the Gospel, and so that men and women of science, letters and the arts may know that the Church acknowledges their work as a service to truth, goodness and beauty.

Furthermore, the Pontifical Council for Culture oversees and co-ordinates the activities of the Pontifical Academies, and co-operates on a regular basis with the Pontifical Commission for the Cultural Heritage of the Church.

B. - The Council has been given the following tasks:

1.- To promote the encounter between the saving message of the Gospel and the cultures of our time, often marked by unbelief or religious indifference, in order that they may be increasingly open to the Christian faith, which creates culture and is an inspirational source of science, literature and the arts (Cf. the Motu Proprio “Inde a Pontificatus”, Art. 1).

2.- To manifest the Church’s pastoral concern in the face of the serious phenomena of the rift between the Gospel and cultures. It therefore promotes the study of the problem of unbelief and religious indifference found in various forms in different cultural milieus, inquiring into their causes and the consequences for Christian faith, in order to offer adequate support to the Church’s pastoral activity in evangelising cultures and inculturating the Gospel (Cf. ibid., Art. 2).

3.- To foster the Church’s and the Holy See’s relations with the world of culture, by undertaking appropriate initiatives concerning the dialogue between faith and cultures, and intercultural dialogue. The Council oversees initiatives undertaken by the Church’s various institutions and offers its co-operation to the corresponding organs of Bishops’ Conferences (Cf. ibid., Art. 3).

4.- To establish dialogue with those who do not believe in God or who profess no religion, provided they are open to genuine co-operation. The Council organises and participates in study congresses in this field by means of experts (Cf. ibid., Art. 4).

5.- To oversee and co-ordinate the activities of the Pontifical Academies (Cf. ibid., II and the 1982 letter of foundation), while respecting the autonomy of their respective research programmes, so as to promote multidisciplinary research and to make the work of the Academies more widely known (Norms for the renewal of the Pontifical Academies, 7).

6.- To be involved in the cultural concerns encountered by the departments of the Holy See in the course of their work, and to work on projects organised together with some of them, in such a way as to facilitate their tasks in the evangelisation of cultures, and to ensure co-ordination between the Holy See’s cultural institutions (Cf. 1982 letter of foundation).

7.- To enter into dialogue with Bishops’ Conferences, and with Conferences of Major Religious Superiors, in order to allow the whole Church to benefit from research programmes and other initiatives, achievements and productions which allow local Churches to take an active part in their own cultural environment (Cf. ibid.).

8.- To co-operate with Catholic universities and international organisations of a historical, philosophical, theological, scientific, artistic or intellectual nature, and to promote co-operation amongst them.

9.- To keep up with the activities of international bodies like UNESCO and the Council of Europe, which are concerned with culture, the philosophy of science and human sciences, and to ensure the effective participation of the Holy See in international congresses concerned with science, culture and education (Cf. ibid.).

10.- To keep up with the cultural policies and activities of governments throughout the world (Cf. ibid.).

11.- To facilitate Church-culture dialogue at the level of universities and research centres, organisations of artists and specialists, researchers and scholars, and to promote meetings of note in and through these sectors of culture (Cf. ibid.).

12.- To welcome to Rome representatives of culture interested in a better understanding of the Church’s activities in this field, and in ways of allowing the Holy See to benefit from their rich experience, by offering them a place in Rome where they can meet and dialogue.

2. The structure of the Council

The Pontifical Council for Culture has two sections: 1. Faith and Culture, 2. Dialogue with Cultures.

1. Day-to-day work is entrusted to the permanent staff resident in Rome, viz.:
* the President, Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy)
* the Secretary, Msgr. Barthélemy Adoukonou (Benin)
* the Under-secretary, Msgr. Melchor Sánchez de Toca y Alameda (Spain),
* the Head of Office, Msgr. Gergely Kovács (Romania),
* the Officials, 6 priests and 1 laic who are responsible for geographical areas and the various fields in which the Council works (science, Catholic cultural centres, art and artists, communications media, Pontifical Academies, sects and so on)
* 7 other administrative and technical assistants.

2. The Council has a Plenary Assembly at least once every three years. Its purpose is to evaluate and plan the department’s programmes, and to pool experiences and reflections on the variety of cultural situations in contemporary societies. All of this is done in the context of evangelisation and the Church’s dialogue with cultures. Those who are invited are the Members of the Council, cardinals and bishops appointed by the Holy Father for five-year terms. At present there are 21 cardinals and 14 archbishops and bishops from various parts of the world..

3. The Council also relies on Consultors for the study of particularly important questions. These, too, are appointed by the Holy Father for five-year terms. There are currently 23 of them: they come from all over the world, and are specialists in the field of culture or in dialogue with non-believers. They assist the Council by their research and the information and opinions they provide.

Please show me above where it says, “One competence of this council is to judge the New Age content of works of literature and of cinematic endeavors,” or something similar to that.

Frankly, I agree with Msgr. Fleetwood, when YOU quote him:

“Some of the people who complain to me quote a priest who has worked in Rome and has been described as the exorcist of Rome, saying that evil is just behind every line in the books. Well, I answered that by saying: I’m a priest as well, I’m not as holy as that man, but his is an opinion and mine is an opinion, and neither of us automatically has a right to the opinion being more authoritative. I would say you’d have to prove a thing like that, when you say that evil is behind every sentence. I can’t see it.”

Do you read what you post? Msgr. Fleetwood himself says that his opinion is not automatically of any greater authority than that of the chief exorcist of Rome. Nor automatically of any less authority. BOTH are opinions to be considered. And Msgr. Fleetwood himself lays out the criterion for judging - that the argument is PROVED - BY REASON, NOT that we are to appeal to the authority of his words or another's words.

Why do you disagree with the Vatican expert??

Appeal to reason, not to authority. The appeal to authority here is very, very, very weak, and in fact, infects your whole argument.

“This is a slippery slope and those that disregard the Vatican to follow other priests homilies from 2001!”

Msgr. Fleetwood strikes me as a wonderful priest. But he was at the time, essentially, a Vatican bureaucrat. Not every off-hand comment from every Vatican bureaucrat is authoritative, binding teaching.

sitetest

This is great information. Thank you. I saw the commentary I most hoped to read (5 stars across the board; I can see why you owned a few):Back to the basics with this varied, well-organized and informative vegetarian cookbook. Due to many food allergies including wheat and gluten, I really appreciate the recipes using alternative ingredients such as quinoa, millet, and amaranth.
I've got some food allergies myself; I'm going to get a copy of this book. Thanks again!

Rationalize it all you want.
Cardinal Ratizinger defaulted to Fleetwood as an authority. His modesty doesn’t change that fact, my FRiend.

“The Pontifical Council for Culture is that department (Dicastery) of the Roman Curia which assists the Pontiff in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the benefit and service of the universal Church and of particular Churches concerning the encounter between the saving message of the Gospel and cultures,”

JPII put Fleetwood on this Council and you may not want to see them as experts on culture, but they are.

When Pope Benedict defaults to the “Chief Exorcist” or the Priest in the OP, then they have more standing. Until then, the Msgr he did default to, says HP is not New Age and not harmful.

The last I will say on the subject is, you can find what you want on the internet. My own Pastor, who my daughter was intelligent enough to ask, agrees with Msgr Fleetwood. AND he read the books for discernment. ‘Nuff said.

LOL!

More from O'Brien:In a second letter to her [Kuby], dated May 27, 2003, he [Ratzinger] wrote that he "gladly" gives her his permission to publicize his judgment about the Harry Potter series. In a handwritten personal Christmas card he sent to her in December, 2003, he said, "Thank you very much for your courageous engagement against occultism and magic."

It was not until two years later, after he had been elected Pope, that the disinformation in the secular press began to be addressed. When a Catholic media journal in Canada published copies of the Ratzinger-Kuby correspondence, its reports sparked a number of articles and interviews with Kuby and other Potter critics that made some headway in correcting the false impression that the Church approved of the series. However, the damage had been done, the myth had circulated as fact among countless people. Even now in the year 2010, it is not uncommon to meet journalists, pastors, and parents who cling to that erroneous first impression, partly because corrective media attention amounted to only a fraction of the earlier propaganda.

In our times it is not generally the practice of the Catholic Church to make definitive judgments on cultural matters. Even so, when certain minor officials of the Vatican make public statements about books and films, their opinions are often treated as magisterial. For example, one priest in a Vatican congregation has publicly questioned the veracity of the Kuby-Ratzinger correspondence. He has also dismissed Fr. Amorth's warnings about the Potter books, saying, "Well, Fr. Amorth is a priest and I am a priest; he has his opinion and I have mine." He did not go so far as to say, "Well, the Pope is a priest and I am a priest; he has his opinions and I have mine." Exercising strategic caution, he simply refrained from any consideration of the positions held by the chief shepherd of the Church.

Thus, confusion grows, and with it a sifting of the Body of Christ. Culture has been the instrument of the division, a vehicle of moral and spiritual corruption that has penetrated very far into the Lord's flock by entangling numerous Christians in a strained effort to find a little good in a welter of evil concepts and images, to justify an appetite for what is ultimately harmful to souls.

This in turn has bred the potential for further divisions and much anger, recriminations, bitterness, and unforgiveness. It goes without saying that no one is really immune to subjectivity. We are all sinners, and we all must struggle through trial and error to reach a proper integration of faith and reason ... [O'Brien then goes on to quote Cardinal Ratzinger, from Called to Communion.] --Michael D. O'Brien, excerpt from Harry Potter and The Paganization of Culture

Dear netmilsmom,

“Rationalize it all you want.”

ROTFLMAO!! That is one of the funniest things I've ever read on FR!

I point out the precise words of Msgr. Fleetwood which you choose to ignore or reason away and I'm the one rationalizing!! Too much!! LOL!!

“The Pontifical Council for Culture is that department (Dicastery) of the Roman Curia which assists the Pontiff in the exercise of his supreme pastoral office for the benefit and service of the universal Church and of particular Churches concerning the encounter between the saving message of the Gospel and cultures,”

I see nothing in what you quote about expertise in discerning the New Age content of works of literature or of film.

“JPII put Fleetwood on this Council and you may not want to see them as experts on culture, but they are.”

Actually, no. False. If you were to actually closely read the mission of the council, part of its mission is to gather OTHER experts (from outside the Vatican - people who are actually and really experts on various cultures, religion, religious indifference, etc.) for conferences, talks, discussions of cultures, religious indifference, the interaction of non-believers and the Church generally.

There is nothing stating that the officials of the council are they, themselves experts on cultural matters. Just the opposite. The main role of the council is to facilitate dialogue, not to provide expert opinion on specific works of literature or film.

There is nothing stating that it is the competence of the council to provide authoritative guidance on specific works of literature or film. You are reading into the mission what you wish to see. Also, even if it were actually true (which it isn't) that the actual members of the council were meant to be experts on culture, there is nothing there that even remotely suggests that they would also be experts on New Age stuff.

“When Pope Benedict defaults to the “Chief Exorcist” or the Priest in the OP, then they have more standing. Until then, the Msgr he did default to, says HP is not New Age and not harmful.”

Actually, it was Cardinal Ratzinger (or more accurately, his office) who sent along the letter to the council. He wasn't yet pope. Moreover, he sent along the letter in question with a note suggesting disapproval of Harry Potter stuff.

That Msgr. Fleetwood has a favorable view of the oeuvre should suggest to you that there is diversity of opinion even within the Curia of this work.

It should also suggest to you that this matter doesn't rise to a particularly high enough level of concern to the Church that it cares to work through that diversity of opinion to an authoritative answer to the question.

“The last I will say on the subject is,...”

It really should be, as the argument that the off-hand comments of a curial functionary are somehow authoritative teaching isn't really tenable.

“... you can find what you want on the internet.”

LOL! I went to the VATICAN WEBSITE and quoted from the VATICAN WEBSITE what the purpose and mission of the council is. Is that insufficiently authoritative for you?? ROTFLMAO!!!

“My own Pastor, who my daughter was intelligent enough to ask, agrees with Msgr Fleetwood. AND he read the books for discernment. ‘Nuff said.”

That's nice. I don't necessarily disagree with Msgr. Fleetwood. Or your pastor. To me, it seems that there is room for diversity of opinion on the topic. Of course, that's how Msgr. Fleetwood appears to see it, as well, but of course, in this instance, you reject the Vatican's “authority” on the subject. I don't.

sitetest

>>I point out the precise words of Msgr. Fleetwood which you choose to ignore or reason away and I’m the one rationalizing!!<<

Lol! The man’s modesty and not wanting a fight is very noble. Not feeding the loons who hate The Church with infighting, is as well. Perhaps you have no clue of the dance that the hierarchy does to prevent being targets, but I can tell you that having an Uncle who is the former head of the Propagation of Faith and a Bishop, I do. Msgr. Fleetwood did well here.

So again, Cardinal Ratzinger defaulted to Msgr Fleetwood. If it’s good enough for the Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and future Pope, it should be good enough for any Catholic.

No need to get all tizzied out sitetest. Don’t let your emotions get the best of you.