Apparitions of the Virgin Mary: A Protestant Look at a Catholic Phenomenon: Part One

Christian Research Journal ^ | 1991 | Kenneth R. Samples

[Campion]

2 Corinthians 11:14 “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”

Does Satan teach little children the prayer I quoted in post 39?

Remember something about Satan. He can't blow his nose with God's permission. He certainly can't mislead people without God's permission. He certainly can't mislead the little kids to whom you think he taught that prayer without God's permission.

Now, what does God himself say about those who mislead little children? Something about a millstone and being cast into the sea, IIRC.

It's dangerous to be blithely accepting of supposed extraordinary manifestations of supernatural power. (Protestantism is not immune to this; cf "Toronto blessing")

But it's also dangerous to facilely dismiss something as Satanic. Open your Bible, and read up on the context of the remark "A house divided against itself cannot stand".

[Campion]

Erratum: He can't blow his nose with without God's permission.

[metmom]

Satan is already condemned. A millstone would be nothing for him at this point.

Satan’s goal is to kill, steal, and destroy. He doesn’t care if he does it to children. Look at the slaughter of innocents he’s perpetrated through abortion. Look at the history of child sacrifice to Molech in the OT times.

God abhors that kind of thing, but man has a free will and chooses to do it anyway. The parents, and Satan, WILL bear the punishment for sure of their actions that harm those children

You are in serious danger of being deceived if you can convince yourself that the apparitions are genuine because God would not permit children to be deceived. There is NOTHING in Scripture that indicates that that God will do that just because they’re children.

It is also dangerous to work on the presumption that something is not Satanic when such a strong possibility that it is exists. There is no Scriptural precedent for accepting apparitions as being genuine. No instructions, only the warning that Satan can appear as an angel of light.

It behooves anyone with any kind of concern for each other or children to not accept any apparition as who it appears to be as genuine. Nobody knows what Mary looks like. How is someone supposed to know that the shining figure of the pretty lady is Mary herself? Because she(it) said so? You’re going to take the word of an apparition?

Catholics in general are far too willing to accept at face value images and apparitions. We don’t need them. We have the Word of God to instruct us (2 Timothy 3:15-17) and the Holy Spirit to guide us to all truth (John 16:13).

[metmom]

Who's getting the emphasis there? Do you even see Mary's name once?

No, but so what? Prayer to Mary dominates the rest of the rosary. Each decade is all about her.

We know. We've prayed it in our day, but thankfully have been set free from that vain repetition.

[metmom]

Like, for example, "All generations to come shall call [Mary] blessed". (Luke 1:48)

And they do. Mary was a very special lady; one who was willing to take public scorn for what would appear to be an illegitimate pregnancy to be obedient.

But that doesn't make her more sinless than us, or more holy, nor justify any of the other stories the church has made up about her. It doesn't warrant the worship and prayer directed towards her, and the elevating her to a level of about godhood that Catholics do.

She was obedient to God in what He called her to do, just as we all should be. She will hear a *Well done thou good and faithful servant* just as any of us who discharge our obligations in obedience will.

[ravenwolf]

Like, for example, “All generations to come shall call [Mary] blessed”. (Luke 1:48)

---

Yes Mary did say that, and it came to pass, we do bless Mary, Mary also had her blessing by having the honor of baring the son of God.

But it does not say to worship Mary nor to pray to her.

[Campion]

Satan’s goal is to kill, steal, and destroy. He doesn’t care if he does it to children.

You're missing my point entirely. If you think Satan is manifesting himself in a supernatural way to children, and you know God is permitting it, what does that say about your view of God?

You are in serious danger of being deceived if you can convince yourself that the apparitions are genuine because God would not permit children to be deceived.

I don't; I have more reasons than that. But you are in serious danger of being deceived if you think God would permit children to be deceived by a supernatural manifestation of Satan's power. Show me some Scriptural basis for that idea.

There is no Scriptural precedent for accepting apparitions as being genuine.

Are you serious? Really?? So much for Joseph's dreams, so much for the Transfiguration, so much for Paul being knocked off his horse, so much for Stephen seeing Our Lord at God's right hand as he was being stoned, etc.

And that's just out of the canonical Gospels and Acts.

We don’t need [apparitions]

I agree with you there. At their best, they are just little "goodies" thrown at us by God to steer our attention back to the stuff that matters. Nothing wrong with that, but it's also certainly true that some people keep their attention on the goodies and ignore the meat and potatoes. Good priests and spiritual directors generally have something to say about that (like, "don't").

Paul would have told you that he didn't "need" his Damascus road vision, too. He had everything he needed already in Scripture, as he spent the rest of his career arguing. The vision was just God's way of getting his attention.

As for the rosary being "vain repetition", that whole argument rests on a mistranslation of a verse in the KJV, which refers to Canaanite pagan practices like those of the ministers of Ba'al who contended with Elijah.

Of the 20 mysteries of the Rosary, 18 of them directly narrate the life and ministry of Christ. Only two of them concern God's rewards to Mary.

[Campion]

we do bless Mary

Not really. Most of the time, Protestants seem to be either ignoring Mary or trying to knock her down to size by saying she's no better, different, or more blessed than anyone else.

But it does not say to worship Mary

Catholics don't worship Mary, if by "worship" you mean to give her the honor due to God.

(The word "worship" originally simply meant only "to honor greatly," which why the antique form of the wedding vows has the groom promising to "worship" his wife.)

[Campion]

one who was willing to take public scorn for what would appear to be an illegitimate pregnancy to be obedient

That's the best you can come up with to say about her?

Thanks for proving my point.

[Running On Empty]

“Out of the 20 mysteries of the Rosary, 18 of them directly narrate the life and ministry of Christ. Only two of them concern God’s rewards to Mary.”

I was thinking the same thing and was going to post this thought myself. Thanks for doing it first and more clearly than I would have.

It’s my daily rosaries that keep me focused on the life death and Resurrection of the Lord and I am always grateful for those special times when I sit to pray and meditate upon them. His glory is always before me in those moments.
The rosary is meant to be a meditational prayer and the name of Jesus is mentioned, reverently and lovingly, 50 times in one Rosary.

[Running On Empty]

“Each decade is all about her”

This is not true.

[smvoice]

Your spiritual eyes failed to see "THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST" in my post. Christ plus works is NOT THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Apparitions of Mary leading to a religion where works are demanded for salvation are not from God. But there IS another religion, with another Jesus and another Gospel, where His name is given and works of righteousness are performed..Full of signs and wonders and lying miracles.

[metmom]

Ten Hail Mary’s, no?

[bkaycee]

Your spiritual eyes failed to see "THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST" in my post. Christ plus works is NOT THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST. Apparitions of Mary leading to a religion where works are demanded for salvation are not from God. But there IS another religion, with another Jesus and another Gospel, where His name is given and works of righteousness are performed..Full of signs and wonders and lying miracles.

Gal 1:8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

2 Pet 1:16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased," 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,

Peter, even after hearing the direct words of GOD points us back to Scripture as a MORE SURE WORD.

[RnMomof7]

Great post, narses. The facts say it all. God bless you.

No they do not..they do not say she was sinless, assumed into heaven that she is the "queen of heaven", the co meditrix, nor do they tell us to pray to her..

In other words they held her in honor, but they did not make her a goddess

[RnMomof7]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2623930/posts?page=55#55

[RnMomof7]

“Do whatever he tells you.”

Sal what does Jesus tell us to do ?

[Quix]

Below are the examples
of exalting other deities.
They are real.
They are serious.
They are owned,
operated in,
manifested in,
heart-felt wallowed in
by millions of Roman Catholics around the world.
Pretending otherwise does not change the facts.
White washing it with magicsterical diplospeak
doesn't change the facts.
Rationalizing it with 101 weasel words
doesn't change the facts.
.
.
.
the FACTS are easy enough to see below
for anyone with
more discernment than a gnat's.
.
.
.
Those reading this with any consciousness above comotose
no longer have any excuse.
.
.
.
Holy Spirit will be nudging, urging, forsaking of all such
--ALL HINT OF SUCH--
IGNORING HIS LEADING, NUDGING, URGING
in such matters can be spiritually deadly.
Very spiritually deadly.
.
.
.
ONCE AGAIN,
just a small part of
THE EVIDENCE: .
.
.

Here's the title:

http://www.amazon.com/Ten-Meditations-Mysteries-Rosary-Ferraro/dp/0819801577/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272938246&sr=1-2

And it carries the official sanctions of:

ni•hil ob•stat
n.
1. Roman Catholic Church An attestation by a church censor that a book contains nothing damaging to faith or morals.
2. Official approval, especially of an artistic work.

WITH RICHARD CARDINAL CUSHING’S IMPRIMATUR

Let me track down the brief portion of quotes upthread . . .

Here they are:

However, as we've seen through a variety of sources--a pile of them in Ferraro's manual about the Rosary--the Roman Catholic et al/Vatican Edifice disagrees with a lot of the claims of RC's hereon to the contrary.

p.32
.
[Quixicated emphases below]
Mary is crowned Queen of heaven and earth, dispenser of all graces . . .

p32
4 - She became Queen of Purgatory, where she exercises her power as mediatrix in behalf of these suffering souls.

5 - She became Queen of us sinners, to assist us through the dangers of this life and to help us in difficulties.

6 - She became the ruler of hell, that trembles at her slightest gaze and is defeated by her power.

"Just as a rock extracted from earth will precipitate into the abyss, so will man, left without Mary's help, quickly slide toward hell." --Richard of St Victor

p37
Sacred Heart of Jesus, Thy kingdom come; Thy kingdom come through Mary! --Partial Indulgence

p41
"Mary is the tree of life to those who grasp her, and he is happy who hold her fast." --Prov. 3:18

p43
1 - "Hail Mary, beloved daughter of the Father, Mother of the Divine Son, Spouse of the Holy Spirit, complement of the most august Trinity!"

p45
6 - To her was granted grace greater than that conferred upon all others, 'that she might vanquish sin in every respect.'
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's vanquishing sin was unnecessary--or ineffectual without Mary's assistance?]

p46
7 - "Mary is the dawn of God because, just as the dawn marks the end of darkness and the beginning of day, so Mary indicates the end of vices and the beginning of virtue."
.
[Qx: I guess Christ's conquering on The Cross and HIS conquering trip to hell were unncessary?]

9 - God loved Mary so much that He gave her the keys to His heart. 'No one can go to God without Mary drawing him.'
.
[Qx: I guess Holy Spirit has been relegated to a 'Walter Mitty' role as spouse of Mary? That's SOME POWER to cancel & take over HOLY SPIRIT'S role to draw men to God!]

p47
4 - "Mary, trusting in the word of the angel, destroyed the sin Eve committed by trusting in the serpent.'
.
[Qx: Evidently, she beat Christ to the job of vanquishing sin!]

5 - "She desired the safety of everyone, went in search of it, and obtained it; it was also through her that this salvation was wrought."
.
[QX: What an unnecessary waste of precious Blood and suffering on THE CROSS!!!/sar]

p47
10 - "As Noah's Ark saved all the animals that entered it, so Mary saves all the souls that entrust themselves to her care."

p50
8 - "If she were not so holy as she is, how could God appoint her to be the ladder of Paradise, the advocate of the world, meatrix between HIm and us?"

p50
4 - "By becoming Mother of God, Mary belongs to the order of hypostatic union; hence she participates IN the infinite sanctity of God."

[RnMomof7]

You sound like the catholic catechism..proof texting out of context

[RnMomof7]

I really feel that i am not even worthy of mentioning her name but i think the Bible is what its all about, nothing more and nothing less.

That is so sad... Look to Christ..