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To: mas cerveza por favor
Those Jews who follow Christ are still Gods chosen people. Those who once again become faithful, like the Old Testament remnant, will rejoin Gods chosen people. Those who reject Christ are "broken off" from the tree. This is the clear teaching of Romans 11. Is it not?

Nope...God's chosen people is never a reference to the 'church'...It is always a reference to Israel...

The times of the Gentiles...What is the times of the Gentiles???

God turned away from Israel, the Jews...Salvation is of the Jews...To provoke jealousy, God offered salvation to the Gentiles...That is us...It is the 'times of the Gentiles'...The Jewish nation has been cut off from the trunk of the tree...

When God is done with the Gentiles, there will be no more adoption into the body of Jesus Christ...That's when the times of the Gentiles will have been fulfilled...

Does the scripture say that Israel will at some point be grafted back into the branches of the tree??? I don't believe it does...

If individual Jews stop their unbelief, they will individually be grafted back into the tree...And in that tree are no Jews nor Gentiles...

But when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled, the tree is done growing...No one gets back into the tree after that...

The tree then, is harvested...At that point, we are headed home...Not to Israel in the Middle East...We have no interest in a piece of dirt...Our home is in heavenly places...

At THAT point, God turns His attention back to his chosen people, Israel...At that point, God says Israel will accept Him as their Messiah and all of Israel shall be saved...At that point, the promises given to Israel will be realized, including the land promises...

I don't know Darby or Schofield...Haven't read their stuff...But I do read the bible and I have found these things in the scripture and without any preconceived ideas of what my religion tells me to believe, I am free to believe what God says in the scriptures...

30 posted on 11/07/2010 4:49:52 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
But when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled, the tree is done growing...No one gets back into the tree after that... The tree then, is harvested...At that point, we are headed home...Not to Israel in the Middle East...We have no interest in a piece of dirt...Our home is in heavenly places... At THAT point, God turns His attention back to his chosen people, Israel...At that point, God says Israel will accept Him as their Messiah and all of Israel shall be saved...At that point, the promises given to Israel will be realized, including the land promises...

That is quite a narrative. Here is what the text from Romans 11 actually says:

"17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

The Deliverer out of Sion has already come. Correct? In the future, "he will come again to judge the living and the dead." He has been and still is turning away ungodliness from Jacob and will continue to do so until the End. The text of Revelations is even less clearly related to your narrative.

Such a dispensationalist narrative was proposed for the very first time during the Nineteenth Century by the Irish preacher, John Darby. Later, the Darbyist narrative was widely popularized by the massively promoted Scofield Reference Bible. Look up Scofield Reference Bible on the Internet. You will be amazed. There is no historical record of dispensationalism existing before the Nineteenth Century.

34 posted on 11/07/2010 6:28:18 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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