when you feel this way greyfoxx39, you really should go....
Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
One more time....so ALL can see.
get a life!
If you don’t believe what the LDS believe then it doesn’t make a lick of difference, right?
Ignore them and move on.
Nana, the Bible didn’t exist when Christ walked the earth.
Are you suggesting he’s reading from it now?
LOL!!....
Been there done that......
I've been called a pig before....but have you ever insinuated a FReeper might be an arsonist...or a murderer?
Be careful how you answer that.
But I would like you to answer the questions....They are simple.
If you've nothing to hide, and nothing to be ashamed of..answer them. If you claim to be an honest and worthy person...then why not answer them?
Your non-answers up to this point are telling....and possibly helping those that are questioning mormonism..and all it's anti-biblical teachings.
Why don't you just answer the questions?
You know....for a person that conveniently claims to be inept at grammar, spelling and such....you don't seem to have a problem when you don't want to.
But hey..."Dear Readers" can certainly see for themselves.
Personally I think you and 5 or 6 others here....are wonderful examples of why NOT to be a mormon....to the smart, insightful, seeking God folks lurking here.
FWIW-
and
John 10:32-33 32Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?" 33The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God."
These are two verses you used, correct? NB: Jesus in verse 29 refers to the Father as a distinct person and again in 32.
He prays to His Father. His Father can save him with 12 legions of angels. He calls his Father - Daddy on the cross.
Trinitarian Christians resolve this through the Holy Trinity. OK, that's their choice, but an objective and thoughtful Christian can read those verses and others in the Bible and decide that the Trinity isn't an accurate description of God.
As to adding to scripture, can you imagine how a faithful Jew feels about the New Testament? You accept it as God's inspired word, added to the Old Testament. Who is right? Why don't the Jews get the same vigorous and continual attacks that the LDS do?
Is it because they are a protected minority? Or because they don't proselytize or because the numbers of faithful Jews are dwindling and hence pose no threat to modern Christendom?
I don't know, but respect for conscience implies respect for God. That he gave us choice and that scripture is open to interpretation indicates that He knows a bit more about salvation than we do. I cannot see God punishing honest, sincere believers because they got it wrong. It just doesn't jive with "God is love".
Be that as it may, Scripture was fulfilled that a virgin conceive and bring forth a son. If Mary had sex with Elohim as LDS teaches, she wasn't a virgin.
The Bible says that a virgin will conceive. It doesn't say how she would conceive. It doesn't say or even imply that Mary is a perpetual virgin, but you can believe that if you like. Let's not argue it any more.
I can respect your conscience. I've seen your writings and can believe you are a thoughtful, God-fearing Christian.
I pinged your comment #2 way back at the beginning of this thread just as I indicated originally.
You never posed any questions to me. But, spare me any questions and I’ll simply extricate myself from this philosopher’s swamp.
I am starting to wonder if you are a device and whether I donate or not is not the issue!
mindreading is a no no for some here are you a device?
Don't you think the LDS know you don't believe what they believe? At what point does it stop being Christianly and just become vindictive?
We don't believe in lying to tell people what their itching ears want to hear and allow them to be condemned for eternity.
Hence the operative word believe. They believe they're doing the right thing by God and anyone who knows the LDS knows that they are good and sincere people.
Secondly, you have no control over who is and isn't condemned to eternity. Pride and idolatry are subtle sins.
If they choose to reject the Word of God as given in the Bible, that's their business.
"that's their business - and that's my point.
Explain?
So you have no position?
Oh well.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
and
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Did Jesus lie in these two verses?
The Bible says that a virgin will conceive. It doesn't say how she would conceive.
While it doesn't get technical and go into the mechanics of it, Scripture says....
Luke 1:34-35 34And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"
35And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy— the Son of God.
Matthew 1:22-2322 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
Interesting name He was given there.....
I've asked you questions....that I think deserve answers.
I happen to think you are Freeploader...
I happen to think you post here nearly continually promoting mormonism, beating down Christians in your mormon superior way and give nothing money wise to Free Republic...all the while whining and complaining to the owner and/or owners of this web site.
Not to mention I don't for 3 minutes believe your "I'm a victim baloney"
Prove me wrong...and I will quit asking you questions.
Give me some evidence....................
Yes or no?
Answer the question restornu........
And you totally didn't address the key verses there, which are.....
John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
****
Show me in the Bible where the Lord changed the difenition of words (the Father still means the Father, and Son still means Son and most Highest still means Heavenly Father) the Lord is not the author of confusiion.
John 17:
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
• • •
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
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