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To: boatbums
You can't on one hand say we are saved by grace and then on the other say it is by faith AND works

Both parts are true. God sends His grace. We respond with faith and good works.

If it is by grace, it can't be by works [Romans 11:6]

Correct. That is the Catholic teaching. Grace is not of works.

If you don't understand the above, please ask, before complaining that it is the fifth time we engage in the same discussion (7161). Unless you understand the Catholic faith, it is not yet discussion, it is just you making noise on the thread while I repeat what you did not grasp previously.

7,286 posted on 03/01/2011 5:41:24 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Condescension aside, I understand all too well the Roman Catholic doctrine regarding salvation by faith and works. What you seem to fail to understand is that those who have come from that religious expression into the light of the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ do not automatically forget their previous teachings. You say the "Catholic" belief is that we are saved by God's grace. Well and good. If not for his grace towards us, we would have no hope of redemption. But grace is God's action towards us and, in order for grace to be grace, it means that it is offered freely. Grace (charis), by its very definition, means the state of kindness and favor towards someone, often with a focus on a benefit given to the object. In other words, by an act of mercy and love, God chose to redeem us from condemnation, not because of our own merit or worth but because of his grace. Consequently, he also spells out to us how we acquire this grace, which is called a gift. Romans 5:1,2 says: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. So we access grace by faith, according to Scripture.

My point was that you cannot make a gift a reward for works, it no longer is grace but is instead deserved or earned. Grace is God's gift to us which we then receive by faith. You may choose to deny it but God is definitely clear in his word that faith is what he expects of us and our actions become an outgrowth of the work of the Holy Spirit within us. The place of works in a Christian's life is as evidence of the new nature. To claim that works supplement faith in the receiving of the gift is to cast aside the grace of God in favor of human merit. Trusting in anything else than the blood of Jesus Christ to save us from our sins is rejecting the gift of eternal life.

7,290 posted on 03/01/2011 6:16:59 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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