Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: annalex; metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums
Contd.

"By works faith [is] made perfect" (James 2:22).

Or by works faith perfected. (byG1537 worksG2041 was faithG4102 made perfect?G5048) An inert type faith is dead. “How that by works a man is justified,” (Ja. 2:24) is that it is not by a kind of faith which is alone but one which is confession in nature. In Rm. 4, Paul is dealing with what exactly the basis for justification is, and clearly states that it is “not by works of righteousness,” “to him that worketh not but believeth,””by grace through faith, not of works,” and thus Abraham was justified by faith in Gn. 15:6.

Yet as regards the nature of saving faith, Paul himself states, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Rm. 10:9,10) Thus it is a confessional type faith that is salvific. And this confession can be by mouth as well as by “body language” such as in baptism.

But what if the person is mute, and immobilized, and all he/she can do is think? Thus we have the belief in “baptism by desire,” and if that can be the case, then justification does not require an actual acting out to be appropriated, though a work may be the occasion when faith is realized, yet if one is justified in heart then it will be expressed when able, and so a salvific faith is one that will work. To refuse to do so, or to willfully act contrary to it, is a denial of faith. (Mt. 10:32; 1Tim. 5:8; 2Tim. 2:12,13)

As for James, he is dealing with souls who suppose that a kind of faith is salvific which professes “Jesus is Lord” but does not evidence it, yet has Abraham's justification being in Gn. 22, which would be a contradiction of both Moses and Paul if he meant that Abraham was not a saved soul until he was willing to offer up Isaac. It is thus typically concluded that this act justified Abraham as one justified, confirming the virile nature of his faith, “fulfilling” it as true. More on this below.

However, even if we understand James teaching that Abraham's justification did not actually occur until Gn. 22, so that Gn. 15:6 was more like a promise and not a present reality, and thus justification does not occur until such an expression of faith as Abraham or Rahab made, which understanding i see as the only other alternative, yet what James does not say is that such works of faith merit eternal life, and or that the latter was any kind of deserved reward for his works , which Rome renders them to be.

your statement cannot necessarily say is that Protestant theology leads one to eternal damnation

Man can be sanctified by the diligent study of the scripture, and therefore can be saved. what your statement implies is that Catholicism manifests a greater degree of grace, which is her stance, while the multitudes of those who left Catholicism for Evangelical churches (which has far more been the case than the opposite), testifies otherwise

Souls are not saved on the basis of their own holiness, but faith which is imputed for righteousness, but “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Rm. 10:17)

Indeed. The fullness of faith is inthe Catholic faith.

That is not what what i said, but that the evidence shows a poorer spirituality among Roman Catholics than evangelicals, despite the general declension of faith overall in the West.

As I stated many times, one who seriously and attentively studies the Hoyl Scripture will perhaps not become a Roman Rite Catholic ..and perhaps he would..rather join an Eastern Orthodox Church. But even in becoming Orthodox rather than formally Catholic he will embrace the Catholic theology and most congenial to him Catholic praxis.

This would admit that a modern day Berean would likely not become an Roman Catholic, yet they supposedly have the fullness of the faith, and which claim relies rests upon their own “infallible” self-proclamation.

What do the numbers of conversions mean? Not much. In 4c the Christendom was overwhelmingly Arian.

My statement was in reference to Rome's assertion that Catholicism manifests a greater degree of grace, but based on what research i have, converts to evangelical churches most typically usually do not primarily site doctrinal issues, but relational, with 90% of former Roman Catholics saying it was a spiritual search for a more direct, personal experience with God was the main reason that brought their conversion.

And as most first realized this relationship due to a personal conversion as a result of conviction and faith in Christ to save them as lost sinners, rather than being treated as Christians due to their infant baptism(typically), their faith is far less centered on a particular church than one their relationship with Christ, and they find fellowship that transcends denomination with those who had the same conversion.

6,368 posted on 01/01/2011 6:06:39 PM PST by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6309 | View Replies ]


To: daniel1212; metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Belteshazzar; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums
this confession can be by mouth as well as by “body language” such as in baptism.

And by good works. It is therefore not only confessional. confession of faith is merely a start. Consider 2 Peter 1:2-10.

But what if the person is mute, and immobilized, and all he/she can do is think?

Well, the Good Thief was immobilized, literally. He still defended the innocent and did penance for his sins. As a thought experiment, I can grant you that good work may be a bare internal prayer for the good of a neighbor, for any other expression of virtue is physically impossible. It is still heroic virtue -- works.

what James does not say is that such works of faith merit eternal life

He said "justified". That means eternal life. Here is the passage:

[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? [22] Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? [23] And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. [24] Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
Of course St. James is not saying that Abraham was justified by merely offering up Isaac, i.e. by works alone; it is by works cooperating with faith that he was justified.

Souls are not saved on the basis of their own holiness, but faith which is imputed for righteousness

No, not "imputed". That perhaps is the root of Protestant error. A holy man is a new creature, he truly is. Of course that holiness is of Christ, -- partaking of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) but souls are saved solely on the basis of holiness. See again Matthew 25:31-46.

poorer spirituality

I don't know how you compare these things, but what I witness in Protestantism is not spirituality but elevated emotionalism.

a modern day Berean would likely not become an Roman Catholic

Most Catholic converts are exactly converts along the Berean model: they study the scripture and they discover that on all the Catholic distinctives it is the Catholics who take the Bible on face value and Protestants need to build complex sophistry to get from "not by faith alone" to "by faith alone" or from "this is my body" to "this symbolically represents my body".

Rome's assertion that Catholicism manifests a greater degree of grace, but based on what research i have, converts to evangelical churches most typically usually do not primarily site doctrinal issues, but relational, with 90% of former Roman Catholics saying it was a spiritual search for a more direct, personal experience with God

Both are true. Catholicism is means of uncreated grace. This is not something people can easily relate to. Catholic service is impersonal and unemotional. A good priest, for example, is one who serves as if no congregation was present at all. He, in fact, would do well to have his back to them. If one wants an emotional involvement, especially if "personal" means a separation from the Communion of Saints, he is not ready for the Church, and very many aren't.

6,686 posted on 01/04/2011 9:20:42 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6368 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson