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To: boatbums; OLD REGGIE; metmom
They aren't saying we are saved by "works of the law" but it's by "good deeds".

Correct, thank you for noticing this important distinction.

Of course, the problem then is aren't the Ten Commandments part of "The Law"? By that thinking, I guess God says go ahead and steal, lie, murder, etc. - since that stuff is under "The Law", and as long as you do good deeds, you will be okay

We don't obey the Ten Commandments because they are Jewish law, but rather because Jesus repeated them (most of them) to us, expanded them and explained them (Mt 5-7). Not stealing, etc. is a good idea and violating the Ten Commandments is a sin, but you are not saved by merely obeying them as law.

what the following verse means under that kind of logic: Titus 3:5

"ουκ εξ εργων των εν δικαιοσυνη", -- not by the works of justice -- explains the same principle. You are nto saved by obeying law but by "exceling in good works" (Titus 3:8).

6,272 posted on 12/30/2010 4:22:04 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex; OLD REGGIE; metmom
We don't obey the Ten Commandments because they are Jewish law, but rather because Jesus repeated them (most of them) to us, expanded them and explained them (Mt 5-7). Not stealing, etc. is a good idea and violating the Ten Commandments is a sin, but you are not saved by merely obeying them as law.
what the following verse means under that kind of logic: Titus 3:5
"ουκ εξ εργων των εν δικαιοσυνη", -- not by the works of justice -- explains the same principle. You are nto saved by obeying law but by "exceling in good works" (Titus 3:8).

Your interpretation of Scripture is revealingly false and anyone who can read can see that. For the record, here is the passage:

Titus 3:3-8
At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

So, no, the verses certainly do not say that we are saved by "excelling in good works". Rather, those who ARE saved, justified by grace, should be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good because these teachings are true and are profitable for everyone who are members of the body of Christ.

As I have said before, go right ahead and rely upon your good works to save you - they won't, but you have been warned - and I will rest upon the grace of God. Because, you see, saying you accept the gift of grace but insisting that your works are what ensures your salvation is not really accepting the gift of grace. You are really casting aside grace.

6,274 posted on 12/30/2010 5:35:21 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: annalex; boatbums; OLD REGGIE; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...
We don't obey the Ten Commandments because they are Jewish law, but rather because Jesus repeated them (most of them) to us, expanded them and explained them (Mt 5-7). Not stealing, etc. is a good idea and violating the Ten Commandments is a sin, but you are not saved by merely obeying them as law.

Bangs head on desk......

We do. But we don't, until we do.....

Just what, then, IS the criteria for what is *good* if it's not the Law?

You think that the Catholic church can just go and make up any old thing it wants, declare it a *good work*, adequate for salvation, outside of what God has stipulated is good and evil?

Good grief, not only has the Catholic church decided that it doesn't need the Bible because it has *tradition* but it appears that it's decided that it doesn't even need God, because it can determine the moral value of works without Him.

6,290 posted on 12/31/2010 3:36:10 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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