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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi; boatbums
How about this: the Father is greater than I [John 14:28]?

Sure, but Jesus was obviously not splitting His "hypostatic union" (if I am using that correctly) and speaking in His "Divine-only" capacity. Just a few verses earlier He says:

John 14:9-14 : 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

This doesn't match a stand alone "the Father is greater than I"

JOHN 17:
7 Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee;
8 for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine;
10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

"...that they may be one, even as we are one."

Are "they" to retain an individual identiry or are "they" to become God in the same manner you say Jesus is God?

Jesus did not ever claim to be God. Rather, He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me,..." and this is the same he asks for you.

5,750 posted on 12/23/2010 8:44:14 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am a Biblical Unitarian?)
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To: OLD REGGIE; Forest Keeper; kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi; boatbums
Matthew 19:17 is a good example. Although older manuscripts don't have the word “God” in them, it doesn't change the fact that Jesus didn't think it applied to him.
5,753 posted on 12/23/2010 10:13:43 AM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: OLD REGGIE; kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; stfassisi; boatbums
"...that they may be one, even as we are one." Are "they" to retain an individual identity or are "they" to become God in the same manner you say Jesus is God?

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have always had their individual personhood (identity) and that will never change. Therefore, the Father and Son will not "become" God, as they are both already God. They are simultaneously both God and individual Persons within the Trinity.

Jesus did not ever claim to be God. Rather, He said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me,..." and this is the same he asks for you.

Yes, Jesus did claim to be God. Here is an example:

John 8:48-59 : 48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?” 49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.” 52 At this the Jews exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?” 54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” the Jews said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

The Jews tried to stone Him because they knew EXACTLY what Jesus was claiming. They knew their scriptures, including:

Ex. 3:13-14 : 13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?” 14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

What other reason could they have possibly had for immediately wanting to stone Him than for claiming to BE God?

5,953 posted on 12/27/2010 4:49:50 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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