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To: kosta50; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; boatbums
Well, first of all, do you know for sure who "went" to heaven and why? Will works of faith hurt?

I don't know them by name but the Bible describes them as those who have received grace through faith. Works of faith never hurt anything. They are acts of obedience and show a love for God. They just don't earn anyone anything that gets them closer to Heaven.

Second, the self-denial is to not follow yourself as a measure but what Christ did, but imitating him. Imitation implies works of some kind, whether mental or physical works, it doesn't matter. It is an effort, a struggle (Slavonic podvig) to conform to Christ in faith and in everything else.

That is all well and good and obedient as part of sanctification, but it doesn't save. Jesus said so Himself:

Matt. 19:17-267 : 17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” 18 “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” 20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Jesus says that even someone who had kept all the Commandments all of his life (for the sake of argument) still had not done enough to earn his way in. In fact He says it is impossible. Perfection is impossible. And He doesn't say there needs to be some correct mix of works of faith, no, He goes on to say:

Matt. 19:28 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

No mention of works there as contributing to their being in Heaven.

Those who rely, indeed excuse everything they do, on Christ's righteousness simply because they call on his name, are actually relying on their own and not his. They only use his name as an excuse for their doing whatever they want to do.

I couldn't agree more. However, I have to say that I have never seen an example of such a person on FR of any faith.

5,689 posted on 12/21/2010 6:04:04 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; boatbums
“What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven

Either it's true or he was deceiving the man. He is telling him to give up everything he had and come follow him. How many people do you know who did that? I know none.

Matt. 19:28 Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. No mention of works there as contributing to their being in Heaven.

He was obviously speaking only to and of the 12 disciples. Their "works" seem to be in that they followed him, physically.

5,692 posted on 12/21/2010 6:19:49 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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