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To: mas cerveza por favor
I'm surprise you didn't use the more appropriate #4 definition:

The difference with Christ sacrifice and a "victim" is that Christ gave his life willingly. A "victim" may be sacrificed but not willfully. Our Lord was very clear that no one was taking His life but that He was laying it down for us.

It is absurb that Christ was a "victim". In fact, I did a search on the scriptures for the word "victim" and can't find one reference.

It is really unimaginable that Catholics would not question why the Church would change the context and meaning of clear scripture. Their love for the Church must outweight their love of God's text.

2,622 posted on 11/18/2010 5:49:38 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
It is absurb that Christ was a "victim". In fact, I did a search on the scriptures for the word "victim" and can't find one reference. It is really unimaginable that Catholics would not question why the Church would change the context and meaning of clear scripture. Their love for the Church must outweight their love of God's text.

The word victim is used frequently in Septuagint translations of the OT, like the Douay-Rheims, but never in Masoretic text translations, like the KJV. Christ and his Apostles likely used the Septuagint OT, since it was the most complete and authoritative set of scriptures at the time. All the NT quotes of OT scripture come from the Septuagint. In 90 AD, a council of Jewish rabbis denounced the Septuagint and made plans to publish a Hebrew-only set of scriptures. This task was not completed until many centuries later.

The Septuagint contains key prophesies of Christ that are missing or altered in the Masoretic text. In Isaiah 7:14, the mother of the Messiah is a "virgin" in the former, while only a "young woman" in the latter. Is is noteworthy that the large Greek-speaking Jewish diaspora had used the Septuagint exclusively for centuries before Christ. Only after His coming did Jewish authorities decide the Septuagint was no longer acceptable. In the KJV, the sections containing OT prophesies of Christ, such as Isaiah 7:14, substitute in Septuagint passages. However, the rest of the KJV OT uses the Masoretic text. Even the word "holocaust" comes from the Septuagint.

It is odd that the rabbi-compiled, post-Christian Masoretic text completely avoids the word "victim" while the pre-Christian Septuagint contains the word in great abundance. Here are two examples comparing the Masoretic-KJV and the Septuagint-Douay-Rheims:

Leviticus 10:19
DR: Aaron answered: This day hath been offered the victim for sin, and the holocaust before the Lord: and to me what thou seest has happened: how could I eat it, or please the Lord in the ceremonies, having a sorrowful heart?

KJV: And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the LORD; and such things have befallen me: and [if] I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the LORD?

Leviticus 14:13
DR: He shall immolate the lamb, where the victim for sin is wont to be immolated, and the holocaust, that is, in the holy place: for as that which is for sin, so also the victim for a trespass offering pertaineth to the priest: it is holy of holies.

KJV: And he shall slay the lamb in the place where he shall kill the sin offering and the burnt offering, in the holy place: for as the sin offering [is] the priest's, [so is] the trespass offering: it [is] most holy:

2,639 posted on 11/18/2010 7:36:13 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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