As for the rest...well, if you and your dog don't like what is on this thread, no one is forcing you to stay.
count-your-change wrote:
“’Until, is a conjunction in Matt.1:25 and thus connects a before phrase and an after phrase. Nothing complicated about it .”
Thanks for the Greek lesson.
One good turn deserves another, so:
Matthew 1:25: “And he did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.” This is, of course, according to the KJV/NKJV, which translation is based pretty much exclusively on the late Byzantine family of manuscripts. The Greek is: “heos hou eteken ton huion autes ton prototokon.” The earliest, Alexandrian manuscripts, as well as Old Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Georgian translations simply have: “heos hou eteken hiuon,” “until she bore a Son.” You will find in the various UBS and Nestle-Aland editions (the standard works) of the Greek New Testament that the latter is the preferred reading. It is rated “A,” which indicates the highest level of confidence, the ratings being from “A” to “D.” So, unless you want to turn this into a “Textus Receptus” debate (which is fine with me), the text is the latter. According to your reasoning Matthew 1:25 must of necessity mean that Joseph did not have marital relations with Mary until she bore her son, and thereafter did.
However, take note that the exact same word and construction, “heos” plus the genitive, are to be found not just in Matthew 1:25, but also in Matthew 28:20 (note: the same author): “And, lo, I am with you always (literally: all the days) until the end of the age.” According to the same reasoning you employed for Matthew 1:25 this would mean that the Lord promised to be with His (baptized and instructed) disciples until the end of time (or end of the world, if you prefer, but NOT after that.
This, c-y-c, is what happens when you base a theological conclusion on bad grammar ... and your grammar is bad.
Now, we know that Christ will not abandon His disciples at the end of the world because other passages of the Bible tell us explicitly that He will not. But that is not information contained in the grammar of Matthew 28:20, just as the information you insist on in regard to Mary and Joseph is not there on the basis of the grammar of Matthew 1:25. Here, as with Matthew 28:20, that information must be got from other passages of the NT. And therein lies the problem I identified, one which the great reformers, whose Greek was, I am afraid, a lot better than yours, recognized and in all honesty would not take a doctrinal stand on, because they knew all the other passages, knew the possibilities of meaning in the vocabulary in those passages, and knew that the early church fathers (Greek speakers all!) still believed that Mary had no other children. But the testimony of the fathers was not enough to base doctrine on and, therefore, to bind the consciences of Christ’s holy people to, so they left this, CONTRARY TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH MAGISTERIUM, an open question.
Their conviction was that all Christian doctrine had to be based on and confirmed from the plain, clear sense of the Holy Scripture alone, thus SOLA SCRIPTURA.
If you detach the meaning of Scripture from grammar and vocabulary, you are doing the very thing you accuse Rome of doing. For then you must base your reason for what you believe on something other than Holy Scripture.
c-y-c also wrote:
“... but if it still is unclear I suggest going to Thayer’s Lexicon.”
Thank you for the suggestion, however, normally one goes to a dictionary for questions of vocabulary, but to a textbook on grammar for questions of grammar and usage. Thayer’s doesn’t tell you how vocabulary is used, unless you look at all the examples, and it is not exhaustive. No, for that kind of information Bauer/Arndt/Gingrich is good. Liddell and Scott (the big one, not the small or intermediate) is better. Kittel’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is best (it is hard not to be exhaustive when filling ten volumes). As for NT Greek grammars ... well, you get the picture, I think.
Finally c-y-c also wrote:
“As for the rest...well, if you and your dog don’t like what is on this thread, no one is forcing you to stay.”
Thank you for your civility.