[Quix]

I have looked very close at both sides of this issue of succession. It mattered that I do so. However, how the Catholic leadership and those of ancient past have determined Peter's roll and the churches roll is beyond a stretch. Every-time I have approached their perspective I hit rumple strips....the flow isn't there...blind-spots present themselves and the stretch breaks like a rubber band.

I have learned in study of Gods word that it is one thing when the scripture moves right along and that when one has to twist or reconfigure what is actually being stated in order to justify ones opinion or belief. It just doesn't flow right...thus I can say with great certainly that IMO...No Peter nor any of the other Apostles handed down any succession to the Catholic church as they have believed and stated...and No the Pope is not Gods spokesman for the body of believers.

Thank you for your work and the text of scripture you so amply give....it has been and will continue to be a “good study”.

INDEED to the max.

It has been a pile of bureaucratic self-serving magicsterical power-mongering right along from 300-400 AD on. And before that, there were house churches and clusters of believers all over the place loosely connected to one another--if at all--primarily by Holy Spirit's doings--NOT a political power structure..

Christ showed HIS seDiments about politically structured RELIGIOUS elites quite sternly and harshly more than a few times.

Human RELIGIOUS STRUCTURES and organizations ever since have revealed HIS wisdom on such scores relentlessly. The stench always rises sooner or later and usually not that long after Holy Spirit has left the building.

It doesn't matter the label on the door. Though !!!!TRADITION!!!! bound and fossilized tend to be worse than newly minted.

The Scripture manglings and rationalizations to support said manglings grow ever more outrageous. The notion that Jesus transited Mary's birth canal a la a miraculous White Hanky POP is absurd to the max. And that well before He'd received HIS GLORIFIED BODY POST RESURRECTION. That's a nice detail they seem to ignore rather glibly.

And the unmitigated hogwash about Mary not having other natural born Children is more outrageous absurdity. Scripture is rather clear repeatedly on that score. They're evidently not interested in clear Scripture. Clear Scripture doesn't seem to fit well in their rubberized 'Bibles.'

Fantasized farce upon fantasized farce enshrined in fossilized, ritualized irrationality is putting it mildly.

What an insult to the authentic Mary.

Christ also stated sternly at least twice HIS priorities vis a vis His earthly mother and blood brothers and sisters.

Yet again the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology and Reality Mangling will have none of THE TRUTH. Genetic rationalizers must work overtime to deny such plain Scriptures.

May God have mercy. Thanks for your perceptive, astute, well worded post.

[caww]

Yes, Quix..I have noted the areas where there are marked differences...the first heads up of concern was the emphasis on Mary and praying to departed saints. These two did not sit well with me at all. Further searching and many visits to the Vatican website convinced me that, though many in the Catholic church do deny they worship Mary and the Saints,...their actions and their statements, writings ,both historically and present day, testify that they indeed do. Regardless of their denial. I have grieved of catholics over this as I had much hoped otherwise. But it does also appear many do not have a clear understanding of what worship is, as much what it isn't.

Yes, I also have concluded too much emphasis is put on their “traditions” though these have a place in all venues of our life, for many in the catholic church these carry as much weight as scripture, which is why they end up in error. IMO. The pattern is much as with Islam in that they have the Koran but put as much weight and sometimes more in the Hadiths etc. As well their Imams and such...as catholics do Bishops etc. May be why the Pope/Rome and the Moslem leadership see a kindred spirit with one another as also those of the Mormon faith. All three have hierarchy similar...and accountability, “works” and such which benefit that high leadership in them all. I can see where these will identify with one another down the road...all under the name and understanding they are all serving the same God...which is simply not true. There is only the God of Christianity...unfortunately by the catholic church acknowledging openly that the Moslem God is the same they have evidenced by doing so their willingness to eventually abandon the Christian God...at the very least set Him along side a pagan God.

Jesus will always be a stumbling block for those who want to hold that He was simply a good teacher, or a prophet etc. Jesus IS God...and there is none like Him.

What a tremendous education these threads have brought....as well as understanding why and how those on differing sides of issues arrive at their conclusions. They have challenged me to go deeper into Gods word and seek His truth time and again...for that I am much grateful to all who have posted. At other times these have strengthened what I already knew as truth. Jesus did say He was and is the truth....and I will continue to stand on that truth and the words He gave us to live by it. And continue to pray that the light of His truth will be revealed to those in the catholic truth....who want to see it thru Christ and not that of those who determine so.