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To: smvoice; RnMomof7; metmom
No, mas. Pope I did not referee a throw down between Paul and James. And wait a minute, if he did, why did they not capitulate to him? He would have been considered infallible, right?

The throw down at the council was between the former pharisee Judaizers and the united position of Peter, Paul, and James. However, James appears to have been connected with the Judaizers:

Gal 2: 11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself

Peter, James, and the whole Church were eventually won over by the arguments of Paul. Peter appears to have been the bridge-man between Paul and James. The primacy of Peter did not require him to originate everything, only that he determine and authenticate whatever became official teaching. This is what Peter did in siding with Paul.

Peter was the oldest of the Apostles while the younger Paul was not even one of the twelve. It is unlikely that James, Patriarch of Jerusalem, would have capitulated to Paul without the influence of Peter.

1,723 posted on 11/13/2010 7:39:28 PM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: mas cerveza por favor; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

The Council of Jerusalem still proves nothing in regards to Peter being the first “pope”.

All this about Peter doing this, that, and the other thing behind the scenes is just nonsense. Without reading way more into the passage than is said, there’s no way anyone could get the Catholic interpretation of the papacy and justification for it out of that passage.

Peter never referred once in his letter(s) to what Catholics claim for him. He never left specific instructions on how to choose his alleged successor. All Catholics have to go on is his impulsive, ill conceived idea on how to replace Judas, which the apostles were never instructed to do. He acted in the flesh, without the leading of the Holy Spirit.

To base a whole doctrine on that event of questionable validity is foolhardy.

If Peter really did receive from Jesus the office of the first pope and if the Catholic church wrote the Bible, why wasn’t it included in the canon of Scripture if it was so critical a truth? Surely God would have left clearer instructions for what Catholics consider the one true church to maintain its integrity.


1,726 posted on 11/13/2010 8:12:36 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: mas cerveza por favor; smvoice; metmom
Peter was the oldest of the Apostles while the younger Paul was not even one of the twelve. It is unlikely that James, Patriarch of Jerusalem, would have capitulated to Paul without the influence of Peter.

And yet God chose Paul to be the PRIMARY catechist of the New Church .

This is not a competition between Peter and Paul, both were chosen by God to be apostles

Peter had backslidden and was falling back under the law (so much for infallibility) and he needed to be reprimanded by the church .

The 1st church council was held at the seat of the new church and that was Jerusalem . James was the bishop of Jerusalem and thus was the leader of the council. Peter was not in charge, Peter did not make the final ruling, but did as we are commanded, he submitted to the authorities ordained by God

1,762 posted on 11/14/2010 5:43:58 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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